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The Door, Player Expectations, and why 5e can't unify the fanbase.
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<blockquote data-quote="Leatherhead" data-source="post: 5960371" data-attributes="member: 53176"><p>Bold on the relevant part~</p><p></p><p>This is a thing that has been bothering me for quite some time.</p><p></p><p>I've seen people say this, but it really can't be that way. Opening a lock is a mostly binary challenge. You can either open the lock, or not open the lock. The only partial degree of success is "You can't open the lock, but you can still bash the lock open." And in most situations, that is effectively opening the lock, or effectively not opening the lock anyway.</p><p></p><p>Now, most non-combat challenges are set up as a binary, or effectively binary challenge. Can you get across the pit? Can you get past the wall? Can you make it to the church before the sacrifice? I'm sure you get the point.</p><p></p><p>The problem with binary challenges, is that they are pass/fail. I know it sounds like I am repeating myself at this point, but here comes the important part. If you have a handful of people that can be expected to solve a binary lockpicking challenge, then they are going to be completely interchangeable regardless of their methods, or individual competency at the subject. This is because the encounters are supposed to be balanced around the group having a way to get past the lock.</p><p></p><p>Here is the scenario:</p><p>There is a locked door, on the other side of the door is a pie, you must get the pie. The lock is of low quality (DC 15).</p><p>The contestants:</p><p>A master lockpicker blessed by the goddess of thievery. With a legendary +30 lockpicking score.</p><p>A wizard with a "knock spell" that gives +10 to lockpicking.</p><p>And a big dumb brute of a Fighter, with a -1 lockpicking score from being clumsy.</p><p></p><p>Now, the wizard, with their lowly "knock as a bonus to lockpicking" spell effectively makes the master lockpicker redundant. Heck, the Brute bashing down the door makes the master lockpicker redundant. There is no way around that other than setting the check so high that nobody other than the master lockpicker can open the lock. At which point the knock spell becomes useless, and anyone without a master lockpicker in their party is hosed over. Which is a very bad thing to have.</p><p></p><p>Thankfully, picking a lock is a very quick check in the metagame. If the challenge at hand is more time consuming at the table, it runs the risk of delving into the decker problem.</p><p></p><p>The solution to the problem of binary checks isn't to remove binary checks mind you. There are several situations where a binary check is logically and even thematically appropriate. A better solution is to remove the super-specialists who only contribute their one thing to the party.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Leatherhead, post: 5960371, member: 53176"] Bold on the relevant part~ This is a thing that has been bothering me for quite some time. I've seen people say this, but it really can't be that way. Opening a lock is a mostly binary challenge. You can either open the lock, or not open the lock. The only partial degree of success is "You can't open the lock, but you can still bash the lock open." And in most situations, that is effectively opening the lock, or effectively not opening the lock anyway. Now, most non-combat challenges are set up as a binary, or effectively binary challenge. Can you get across the pit? Can you get past the wall? Can you make it to the church before the sacrifice? I'm sure you get the point. The problem with binary challenges, is that they are pass/fail. I know it sounds like I am repeating myself at this point, but here comes the important part. If you have a handful of people that can be expected to solve a binary lockpicking challenge, then they are going to be completely interchangeable regardless of their methods, or individual competency at the subject. This is because the encounters are supposed to be balanced around the group having a way to get past the lock. Here is the scenario: There is a locked door, on the other side of the door is a pie, you must get the pie. The lock is of low quality (DC 15). The contestants: A master lockpicker blessed by the goddess of thievery. With a legendary +30 lockpicking score. A wizard with a "knock spell" that gives +10 to lockpicking. And a big dumb brute of a Fighter, with a -1 lockpicking score from being clumsy. Now, the wizard, with their lowly "knock as a bonus to lockpicking" spell effectively makes the master lockpicker redundant. Heck, the Brute bashing down the door makes the master lockpicker redundant. There is no way around that other than setting the check so high that nobody other than the master lockpicker can open the lock. At which point the knock spell becomes useless, and anyone without a master lockpicker in their party is hosed over. Which is a very bad thing to have. Thankfully, picking a lock is a very quick check in the metagame. If the challenge at hand is more time consuming at the table, it runs the risk of delving into the decker problem. The solution to the problem of binary checks isn't to remove binary checks mind you. There are several situations where a binary check is logically and even thematically appropriate. A better solution is to remove the super-specialists who only contribute their one thing to the party. [/QUOTE]
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