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The double standard for magical and mundane abilities
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadras" data-source="post: 6353753" data-attributes="member: 6688277"><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I'm going wade in here, albeit a little late and despite that my opinion means nothing really, but from my perspective @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a></u></strong></em> hit the nail on the head with his post which included the "OMGHOWCANWIZARDSNEVERFAILSPELLCASTINGWTF!!!?" and effectively ended our diatribe a while ago.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #222222"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I have seen nothing from the opposition since which comes close to countering the points he made. For the record, I am from the opposition. I am one of those that dislike mundanes with mythic/legendary powers. My preference has always been they should be an optional module in the DMG. And I feel the below quote by @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=1932" target="_blank">Savage Wombat</a></u></strong></em> explains my 'unreasonable' logic <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p> <span style="font-size: 9px">@<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=66434" target="_blank">ExploderWizard</a></u></strong></em> reflected upon how we sacrificed learning spells/spell failure and limited cantrips all in the promise of fun (badwrongfun for some). Hopefully the DMG will bring some of that back as modules to add-on. But in the event they don't, I would rather see a thread where we explore house-rules to bring back learning spells/spell failure.</span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Is it a simple Intelligence roll/Arcana Roll respectively?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">How are the DCs determined, in a fair way?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Do we use D20, which can be painful for spellcasters or switch to %d10.</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">How long does it take to learn a spell?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Can you attempt to learn a spell more than once between levels, if not why not? Is that cheesy?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Spell failure, do we need another table, or use the sorcerers wild magic on 1's?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Do you lose the spell if you fail by 5 or more? Is that making things to complex for 5e?</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">...etc</span></span></li> </ul><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">I'd much rather focus on that, since that is moving the debate in the right direction after @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a></u></strong></em>'s post, IMO. We cant argue for mundane ("realism") and not expect it with our spellcasters but punish the poor rogue on every skill he has or forcing the fighter to make every attack roll. It ain't fair. That's not good compromising.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadras, post: 6353753, member: 6688277"] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]I'm going wade in here, albeit a little late and despite that my opinion means nothing really, but from my perspective @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971"]Manbearcat[/URL][/U][/B][/I] hit the nail on the head with his post which included the "OMGHOWCANWIZARDSNEVERFAILSPELLCASTINGWTF!!!?" and effectively ended our diatribe a while ago. I have seen nothing from the opposition since which comes close to countering the points he made. For the record, I am from the opposition. I am one of those that dislike mundanes with mythic/legendary powers. My preference has always been they should be an optional module in the DMG. And I feel the below quote by @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=1932"]Savage Wombat[/URL][/U][/B][/I] explains my 'unreasonable' logic ;)[/FONT][/COLOR] @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=66434"]ExploderWizard[/URL][/U][/B][/I] reflected upon how we sacrificed learning spells/spell failure and limited cantrips all in the promise of fun (badwrongfun for some). Hopefully the DMG will bring some of that back as modules to add-on. But in the event they don't, I would rather see a thread where we explore house-rules to bring back learning spells/spell failure. [LIST] [*][SIZE=1]Is it a simple Intelligence roll/Arcana Roll respectively?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]How are the DCs determined, in a fair way?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]Do we use D20, which can be painful for spellcasters or switch to %d10.[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]How long does it take to learn a spell?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]Can you attempt to learn a spell more than once between levels, if not why not? Is that cheesy?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]Spell failure, do we need another table, or use the sorcerers wild magic on 1's?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]Do you lose the spell if you fail by 5 or more? Is that making things to complex for 5e?[/SIZE] [*][SIZE=1]...etc[/SIZE] [/LIST] I'd much rather focus on that, since that is moving the debate in the right direction after @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971"]Manbearcat[/URL][/U][/B][/I]'s post, IMO. We cant argue for mundane ("realism") and not expect it with our spellcasters but punish the poor rogue on every skill he has or forcing the fighter to make every attack roll. It ain't fair. That's not good compromising. [/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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