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The double standard for magical and mundane abilities
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6356308" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>There'd be no need for that, though. The result of the check (which'll be proficiency + caster stat, exactly the same as making an attack roll with a spell in 5e) could simply be used as the attack roll, as well. The better a job you do casting the spell, the more likely it hits. Could also work for overcoming a save mathematically inverted to act as a defense, or to set the DC for a save (though, you'd have to be pretty careful with that, as it does become two rolls).</p><p></p><p> Fireballs /can't/ fail to do damage, and one that's mis-cast isn't really a fireball, it's a failed attempt to create a fireball, so I don't see the objection.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, magic can do (or be restricted arbitrarily) from doing anything. A magical fireball doesn't have to act exactly like ordinary fire. It could fail to burn someone 'pure of heart' or with 'great courage' (like Sigurd riding through the ring of fire), it all depends on how magic works in that universe (or even for that caster or that spell). </p><p></p><p>So there's no issue at all with justifying a fireball that manifests, but does no damage to a particular target, even as it incinerates others and burns the surrounding scenery (or doesn't).</p><p></p><p>Indeed that goes anytime the 'demands of narrating magic' conflict with balance or playability - just change the narrative of the magic to suit. That's prettymuch where Vancian came from. Gygax realized that an artillery-like mage would be broken if it could fire frequently, so, daily slots. By the time that got adapted to 9 spell levels and 18+ character levels, it was thoroughly broken, of course, but the original /reason/ was not wanting to model the Dying Earth, but wanting to include a payable implementation of magic in a medieval wargame.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6356308, member: 996"] There'd be no need for that, though. The result of the check (which'll be proficiency + caster stat, exactly the same as making an attack roll with a spell in 5e) could simply be used as the attack roll, as well. The better a job you do casting the spell, the more likely it hits. Could also work for overcoming a save mathematically inverted to act as a defense, or to set the DC for a save (though, you'd have to be pretty careful with that, as it does become two rolls). Fireballs /can't/ fail to do damage, and one that's mis-cast isn't really a fireball, it's a failed attempt to create a fireball, so I don't see the objection. Furthermore, magic can do (or be restricted arbitrarily) from doing anything. A magical fireball doesn't have to act exactly like ordinary fire. It could fail to burn someone 'pure of heart' or with 'great courage' (like Sigurd riding through the ring of fire), it all depends on how magic works in that universe (or even for that caster or that spell). So there's no issue at all with justifying a fireball that manifests, but does no damage to a particular target, even as it incinerates others and burns the surrounding scenery (or doesn't). Indeed that goes anytime the 'demands of narrating magic' conflict with balance or playability - just change the narrative of the magic to suit. That's prettymuch where Vancian came from. Gygax realized that an artillery-like mage would be broken if it could fire frequently, so, daily slots. By the time that got adapted to 9 spell levels and 18+ character levels, it was thoroughly broken, of course, but the original /reason/ was not wanting to model the Dying Earth, but wanting to include a payable implementation of magic in a medieval wargame. [/QUOTE]
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The double standard for magical and mundane abilities
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