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The Dueling Essays of Arneson & Gygax
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<blockquote data-quote="GameDaddy" data-source="post: 7955018" data-attributes="member: 80711"><p>He Did. Dave Arneson told me directly that he had done so, He sent his additional design notes for D&D that were not included in the first printing before the publication of D&D, and that Gary moved up the publication of 0D&D and did not inform Dave in a timely manner. Dave told me that, looking back, he thinks that was the first omen or sign of things to come in what their long term relationship and business arrangement would become, and that he should have paid more attention to that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay I will provide some additional insight for you, but only because Dave asked me to tell everyone, including you, because he knew you would ask. He knew this back in 2004, when I sat down with him, and we talked about the original publication of D&D for awhile. When he recounted his experience with me; He saw the first printing of D&D only after TSR mailed him his designer comped boxed set, and was upset that none of these additional notes you speak of were included. He immediately called Gary via telephone to find out why Gary had not included his additional notes. As it turned out Gary had sent what they already had layed out to the printers, and Dave's notes arrived eighteen days after Original D&D went to the printers. By that time the printers had already photographed all the page layouts and created the metal printing plates for the first print run using the common and very expensive photo-chemical engraving process that offset printers used at that time. In short, Gary could have recalled the first set of printing plates and had a new set created after updating the layouts but chose not to do so, according to Dave, for two reasons;</p><p></p><p>1) TSR was very concerned someone else would publish a Fantasy RPG and bring it to market first, and...</p><p></p><p>2) The cost to have another set of printing plates manufactured by the printer was prohibitively high</p><p>and it probably would have rendered the first print run much less profitable.</p><p></p><p>I was floored when Dave told me this and asked him "<em>You mean there is another significantly different version of OD&D that I have never seen before?" </em></p><p></p><p>...and he was like <em>"Yes."</em></p><p></p><p>So I asked him what happened to his notes, they included additional rules, charts, and tables with some emphasis on using percentile dice as well as the other polyhedrals instead of d6's to work out random game events, and results. and he said;</p><p></p><p><em>"Some of the new rules, of course were published later in the Blackmoor supplement under an agreement we came to shortly after the publication of D&D, but only after the Greyhawk supplement was published, and the remainder of what I contributed ended up in Gary's game design file cabinet, which was a locking cabinet that he kept in his offices at TSR."</em></p><p></p><p>I was like, <em>"Do you know what happened to your original notes, though, because I sure would like to see them?!"</em></p><p></p><p>He said.<em> "Well, my guess is, after I sued TSR, they tossed them, because it would not do, if during trial discovery, it came out that I had made signifcant contributions to D&D and TSR actually had original dated documents in its possession confirming that. It was put into file 13. It is what I would do if I were them."</em></p><p></p><p>I was incredulous. <em>"You mean they ( They being Gary @ TSR at the recommendation of his legal counsel) threw them away?"</em></p><p></p><p>He was sad, and said, <em>"Yep, The first place I would look for them, if they still even existed, would be the Lake Geneva landfill, and if not there, If he kept anything then Gary kept them locked up in his file cabinet."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>"I'm like, okay, so what happened to that, then... All of Garys' design notes? The ones that were locked in his file cabinet?"</em></p><p></p><p>He told me back then, long before I ever heard from Jon Peterson, that Gary was thrown out of TSR in 1985, and that some of the other TSR employees who were in Lake Geneva at the time, said that the other TSR executives there had went through that cabinet and removed anything that Gary could use to make a claim against TSR, that would be admissible in court.</p><p></p><p>So I'm like<em> "File 13?"</em> and Dave laughed sadly then and said <em>"Yep, File 13."</em></p><p></p><p>That was the end of our discussion concerning that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GameDaddy, post: 7955018, member: 80711"] He Did. Dave Arneson told me directly that he had done so, He sent his additional design notes for D&D that were not included in the first printing before the publication of D&D, and that Gary moved up the publication of 0D&D and did not inform Dave in a timely manner. Dave told me that, looking back, he thinks that was the first omen or sign of things to come in what their long term relationship and business arrangement would become, and that he should have paid more attention to that. Okay I will provide some additional insight for you, but only because Dave asked me to tell everyone, including you, because he knew you would ask. He knew this back in 2004, when I sat down with him, and we talked about the original publication of D&D for awhile. When he recounted his experience with me; He saw the first printing of D&D only after TSR mailed him his designer comped boxed set, and was upset that none of these additional notes you speak of were included. He immediately called Gary via telephone to find out why Gary had not included his additional notes. As it turned out Gary had sent what they already had layed out to the printers, and Dave's notes arrived eighteen days after Original D&D went to the printers. By that time the printers had already photographed all the page layouts and created the metal printing plates for the first print run using the common and very expensive photo-chemical engraving process that offset printers used at that time. In short, Gary could have recalled the first set of printing plates and had a new set created after updating the layouts but chose not to do so, according to Dave, for two reasons; 1) TSR was very concerned someone else would publish a Fantasy RPG and bring it to market first, and... 2) The cost to have another set of printing plates manufactured by the printer was prohibitively high and it probably would have rendered the first print run much less profitable. I was floored when Dave told me this and asked him "[I]You mean there is another significantly different version of OD&D that I have never seen before?" [/I] ...and he was like [I]"Yes."[/I] So I asked him what happened to his notes, they included additional rules, charts, and tables with some emphasis on using percentile dice as well as the other polyhedrals instead of d6's to work out random game events, and results. and he said; [I]"Some of the new rules, of course were published later in the Blackmoor supplement under an agreement we came to shortly after the publication of D&D, but only after the Greyhawk supplement was published, and the remainder of what I contributed ended up in Gary's game design file cabinet, which was a locking cabinet that he kept in his offices at TSR."[/I] I was like, [I]"Do you know what happened to your original notes, though, because I sure would like to see them?!"[/I] He said.[I] "Well, my guess is, after I sued TSR, they tossed them, because it would not do, if during trial discovery, it came out that I had made signifcant contributions to D&D and TSR actually had original dated documents in its possession confirming that. It was put into file 13. It is what I would do if I were them."[/I] I was incredulous. [I]"You mean they ( They being Gary @ TSR at the recommendation of his legal counsel) threw them away?"[/I] He was sad, and said, [I]"Yep, The first place I would look for them, if they still even existed, would be the Lake Geneva landfill, and if not there, If he kept anything then Gary kept them locked up in his file cabinet." "I'm like, okay, so what happened to that, then... All of Garys' design notes? The ones that were locked in his file cabinet?"[/I] He told me back then, long before I ever heard from Jon Peterson, that Gary was thrown out of TSR in 1985, and that some of the other TSR employees who were in Lake Geneva at the time, said that the other TSR executives there had went through that cabinet and removed anything that Gary could use to make a claim against TSR, that would be admissible in court. So I'm like[I] "File 13?"[/I] and Dave laughed sadly then and said [I]"Yep, File 13."[/I] That was the end of our discussion concerning that. [/QUOTE]
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