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The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7241712" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>They are /really/ good, relative to the other classes in 5e, yeah. But saves are really bad in 5e. You have six of them to cover, you can't possibly boost all six of your stats, and you only get proficiency in 2. So at least two and often 4 of your saves are going to be terrible, and at most one is going to actually keep pace with DCs as you level.</p><p></p><p>For me, saves getting better across the board as you leveled is something that WotC-era D&D shouldn't have abandoned, and one of the few things that 5e didn't re-wind to that it actually should have. </p><p>The fighter is the stand-out victim of that, because, back in the day, it's saves, though they started out poor-to-middling, improved the fastest. That was a real advantage, and always seemed like an appropriate one, to me: the class that couldn't /do/ magic could at least stand up to it.</p><p>And, yes, there's feats for that, and boosting a tertiary stat with a bonus ASI even if not feats are available does give you a whole +1 to the corresponding save. With DCs scaling from under 13 to 19+, though, that's a +1 stacking up against a 36-point deficit.</p><p></p><p> Start a hockey game?</p><p></p><p> It's not like any good player can't work the game to the strengths of his character - no matter how few or how inferior those strengths may be compared to those of other character classes.</p><p></p><p> That's like handing a wizard a sword and asking "how can he not fight?" Of course he can fight - and better with a staff than a sword (unless he's an elf) and better than that with an effing cantrip. He's just not going to stand out from - or even stand with - the crowd based on his skill with weapons. Telling a 10 STR character to start non-proficiently swinging around some heavy weapon because, hey, BA, y'might hit something now and then, is not illustrating that they're adequate in the combat pillar.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7241712, member: 996"] They are /really/ good, relative to the other classes in 5e, yeah. But saves are really bad in 5e. You have six of them to cover, you can't possibly boost all six of your stats, and you only get proficiency in 2. So at least two and often 4 of your saves are going to be terrible, and at most one is going to actually keep pace with DCs as you level. For me, saves getting better across the board as you leveled is something that WotC-era D&D shouldn't have abandoned, and one of the few things that 5e didn't re-wind to that it actually should have. The fighter is the stand-out victim of that, because, back in the day, it's saves, though they started out poor-to-middling, improved the fastest. That was a real advantage, and always seemed like an appropriate one, to me: the class that couldn't /do/ magic could at least stand up to it. And, yes, there's feats for that, and boosting a tertiary stat with a bonus ASI even if not feats are available does give you a whole +1 to the corresponding save. With DCs scaling from under 13 to 19+, though, that's a +1 stacking up against a 36-point deficit. Start a hockey game? It's not like any good player can't work the game to the strengths of his character - no matter how few or how inferior those strengths may be compared to those of other character classes. That's like handing a wizard a sword and asking "how can he not fight?" Of course he can fight - and better with a staff than a sword (unless he's an elf) and better than that with an effing cantrip. He's just not going to stand out from - or even stand with - the crowd based on his skill with weapons. Telling a 10 STR character to start non-proficiently swinging around some heavy weapon because, hey, BA, y'might hit something now and then, is not illustrating that they're adequate in the combat pillar. [/QUOTE]
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