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*Dungeons & Dragons
The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 7246024" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>In general, I agree that Charisma is an unusual choice for a Fighter, and it probably shouldn't be an ability score given priority since it does a lot less for a Fighter than it does, say, a Sorcerer. SOME Fighter builds can benefit from Charisma, though to a lesser degree than other classes. My first 5e character was a Battlemaster Fighter with Rally who also picked up Inspiring Leader, so I began play with a Charisma of 16. Despite the fact I was trained in Persuasion, I was rarely asked to make that check, and if the opportunity came up, there was usually some other Charisma-based character who was better than me who would make the check instead- I don't think I've encountered a high DC ability check that wasn't a saving throw in 5e (anecdotal evidence, but it's all I have to draw on).</p><p></p><p>A better way to rephrase this argument is that it's more likely that other classes will be better at the Fighter with Persuasion. Yes the Fighter can be a 16 Charisma Noble like mine was, but there's less benefit for Charisma on a Fighter. I was certainly never going to have Charisma 20- too many better uses for my ASI's. Contrast and compare with a Sorcerer, who is very likely to decide the benefit of 20 Charisma outweighs most other choices. And let's not forget the Rogue, who could decide to Expertise Persuasion and get a better check at level 20 with 12 Charisma than most anyone else with a 20 Charisma.</p><p></p><p>I feel this thread has derailed a bit. We are discussing the fact that other classes DO have more opportunities to be useful in the Exploration and Interaction Pillars than the Fighter, either because they have access to abilities that allow this, or have a natural affinity for these tasks. The Fighter has, INNATELY, very little in either case. A Fighter CAN be built to be useful outside of combat, but I don't feel that someone picking up and playing the class would be steered in that direction in the same way that a Warlock player would be. The argument that a meager amount of bonus ASI's entirely bridges this gap seems weak, especially if Feats are on the table, as there are a great many good Feats that most characters won't take if it's more useful to have better stats- even if a Fighter player realizes he can get by with 16-18 Strength or Dexterity, and he's fine with his other ability scores, he's still probably going to be better served by niche Feats like Charger than he would with making a run for 20 Charisma or taking Skulker.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 7246024, member: 6877472"] In general, I agree that Charisma is an unusual choice for a Fighter, and it probably shouldn't be an ability score given priority since it does a lot less for a Fighter than it does, say, a Sorcerer. SOME Fighter builds can benefit from Charisma, though to a lesser degree than other classes. My first 5e character was a Battlemaster Fighter with Rally who also picked up Inspiring Leader, so I began play with a Charisma of 16. Despite the fact I was trained in Persuasion, I was rarely asked to make that check, and if the opportunity came up, there was usually some other Charisma-based character who was better than me who would make the check instead- I don't think I've encountered a high DC ability check that wasn't a saving throw in 5e (anecdotal evidence, but it's all I have to draw on). A better way to rephrase this argument is that it's more likely that other classes will be better at the Fighter with Persuasion. Yes the Fighter can be a 16 Charisma Noble like mine was, but there's less benefit for Charisma on a Fighter. I was certainly never going to have Charisma 20- too many better uses for my ASI's. Contrast and compare with a Sorcerer, who is very likely to decide the benefit of 20 Charisma outweighs most other choices. And let's not forget the Rogue, who could decide to Expertise Persuasion and get a better check at level 20 with 12 Charisma than most anyone else with a 20 Charisma. I feel this thread has derailed a bit. We are discussing the fact that other classes DO have more opportunities to be useful in the Exploration and Interaction Pillars than the Fighter, either because they have access to abilities that allow this, or have a natural affinity for these tasks. The Fighter has, INNATELY, very little in either case. A Fighter CAN be built to be useful outside of combat, but I don't feel that someone picking up and playing the class would be steered in that direction in the same way that a Warlock player would be. The argument that a meager amount of bonus ASI's entirely bridges this gap seems weak, especially if Feats are on the table, as there are a great many good Feats that most characters won't take if it's more useful to have better stats- even if a Fighter player realizes he can get by with 16-18 Strength or Dexterity, and he's fine with his other ability scores, he's still probably going to be better served by niche Feats like Charger than he would with making a run for 20 Charisma or taking Skulker. [/QUOTE]
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