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The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7255585" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>That line of thought (and is repeated often) never makes sense to me. I would think Occam's Razor is at play here.</p><p></p><p>"The fighter sucks and is broken and bad design."</p><p>"It's the most popular class and polls well with gamers."</p><p>"That just means most gamers are OK with bad design."</p><p></p><p>bwuh? That's a bit of a leap of an assumption.</p><p></p><p>More likely, it's not bad design. We already know the fighter has to cover the most archetypes in fantasy literature and media, and thus can't be as narrowly designed as any other class. So the design goals of the class are a bit different than other classes. I've long made the argument that it is a good design because:</p><p></p><p>Objection 1: "It can't do anything out of combat." Yes it can. That's why you get two EXTRA ASIs/feats over anyone else. Instead of a hard baked non combat ability, they give you the choice to choose which out of combat ability you want to have, and you're still one of the best in combat by using the standard 4 ASIs towards combat + other class abilities</p><p>Objection 2: "But if you use those two bonus ASIs/feats for out of combat, you're not the best in combat." Well, if you DID use all 6 feats to combat related things, you most certainly will be. Again, it's your choice. The fighter, supposed to be the best in combat, CAN be the best at combat if you choose. Or be great at combat and also be good in out of combat.</p><p>Objection 3: "The paladin and barbarian can be better by smiting and raging." Well, the fighter was never meant to be nova outside of action surge. The fighter is meant to keep hitting hard forever and ever and not have you dependent on recharging after resting to be really good in combat. Extra ASIs and things like 3 attacks are permanent and impact every round of combat, regardless of how many encounters you have in a day. Rage and smite are not.</p><p>Objection 4: "Fighter's are boring." No they aren't. Players are boring.</p><p>Objection 5: "The fighter doesn't do what I want it to do." There is no rule that every class has to appeal to every player. Luckily there are lots of classes to choose from. I don't like bards. That doesn't mean the bard is a badly designed class.</p><p></p><p>With the way 5e is designed, the fighter gives me tons of choice, which I love. It eliminates the need to multiclass with how feats and backgrounds are structured. Between champion, battle master, and EK, I can replicate just about every fantasy archetype warrior with the fighter chassis. To me, that is GOOD design, and the team deserves kudos for that. I think it's much more probable that most people agree with me and that's why it's a popular class, than it is that most gamers are OK with bad design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7255585, member: 15700"] That line of thought (and is repeated often) never makes sense to me. I would think Occam's Razor is at play here. "The fighter sucks and is broken and bad design." "It's the most popular class and polls well with gamers." "That just means most gamers are OK with bad design." bwuh? That's a bit of a leap of an assumption. More likely, it's not bad design. We already know the fighter has to cover the most archetypes in fantasy literature and media, and thus can't be as narrowly designed as any other class. So the design goals of the class are a bit different than other classes. I've long made the argument that it is a good design because: Objection 1: "It can't do anything out of combat." Yes it can. That's why you get two EXTRA ASIs/feats over anyone else. Instead of a hard baked non combat ability, they give you the choice to choose which out of combat ability you want to have, and you're still one of the best in combat by using the standard 4 ASIs towards combat + other class abilities Objection 2: "But if you use those two bonus ASIs/feats for out of combat, you're not the best in combat." Well, if you DID use all 6 feats to combat related things, you most certainly will be. Again, it's your choice. The fighter, supposed to be the best in combat, CAN be the best at combat if you choose. Or be great at combat and also be good in out of combat. Objection 3: "The paladin and barbarian can be better by smiting and raging." Well, the fighter was never meant to be nova outside of action surge. The fighter is meant to keep hitting hard forever and ever and not have you dependent on recharging after resting to be really good in combat. Extra ASIs and things like 3 attacks are permanent and impact every round of combat, regardless of how many encounters you have in a day. Rage and smite are not. Objection 4: "Fighter's are boring." No they aren't. Players are boring. Objection 5: "The fighter doesn't do what I want it to do." There is no rule that every class has to appeal to every player. Luckily there are lots of classes to choose from. I don't like bards. That doesn't mean the bard is a badly designed class. With the way 5e is designed, the fighter gives me tons of choice, which I love. It eliminates the need to multiclass with how feats and backgrounds are structured. Between champion, battle master, and EK, I can replicate just about every fantasy archetype warrior with the fighter chassis. To me, that is GOOD design, and the team deserves kudos for that. I think it's much more probable that most people agree with me and that's why it's a popular class, than it is that most gamers are OK with bad design. [/QUOTE]
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