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The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9209598" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>It is not a forgone conclusion, but generally a fighter will come out WAY ahead of a Wizard in damage and can usually do it without even trying.</p><p></p><p>I agree at mid and high levels Wizards are more powerful than fighters with equal rolls, but I won't agree that they do more damage, because that is not true except for in very unusual circumstances. Also preparing a lot of damaging spells will usually result in a weaker Wizard character and I would reverse your last sentence above. Wizards can trade their generally better tools for some damage in circumstances where damage would be more effective.</p><p></p><p>For example, right now I am playing a 5th level Enchantment Wizard/1st level Moon Sorcerer, here is her DDB sheet:</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/110942208[/URL]</p><p></p><p>Here are <u><strong>ALL</strong></u> of her spells that do damage. Every single damaging spell she can possibly cast:</p><p>Sacred Flame (as Sorcerer on a very low 12 DC)</p><p>Booming Blade (as Sorcerer)</p><p>Green Flame Blade</p><p>Chill Touch</p><p>Catapult (in her book but not prepared)</p><p>Dissonant Whispers (Fey Touched, I get a free cast from this in addition to using slots)</p><p>Dragon's Breath</p><p>Flaming Sphere</p><p>Tasha's Mind Whip</p><p></p><p>In terms of damage, the most powerful among them is Tasha's Mind Whip, which upcast at 3rd level does 10.5 to two targets with a failed save (about 14 total on average considering saves). Considering chance to hit, a normal attack routine with a 20-strength 6th level fighter wielding a d8 weapon with dueling is going to average what I am doing with my most powerful damaging spell that I can cast a total of three times a day!</p><p></p><p>There is no way that Wizard is going to come anywhere close to doing as much daily damage as a fighter. Typically, she is not going to do even 20% of the daily damage our fighter is going to do. If she purposely played stupidly and used every single slot to maximize damage she still would not come close to the Fighter in the party. Keep in mind too, that this is a multiclass with a level of Sorcerer and a feat giving her 5 more spells known. If she was a single class Wizard she would need to have and prepare Mage Armor, Sheild and Disguise Self and she would have even fewer damaging spells. </p><p></p><p>There is nothing unusual about this build and with the exception of Catapult most of her spells are very common spells routinely chosen by optimizers.</p><p></p><p>There are Wizard builds that do more damage than this build, but they would be weaker builds overall and still behind a Fighter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9209598, member: 7030563"] It is not a forgone conclusion, but generally a fighter will come out WAY ahead of a Wizard in damage and can usually do it without even trying. I agree at mid and high levels Wizards are more powerful than fighters with equal rolls, but I won't agree that they do more damage, because that is not true except for in very unusual circumstances. Also preparing a lot of damaging spells will usually result in a weaker Wizard character and I would reverse your last sentence above. Wizards can trade their generally better tools for some damage in circumstances where damage would be more effective. For example, right now I am playing a 5th level Enchantment Wizard/1st level Moon Sorcerer, here is her DDB sheet: [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/110942208[/URL] Here are [U][B]ALL[/B][/U] of her spells that do damage. Every single damaging spell she can possibly cast: Sacred Flame (as Sorcerer on a very low 12 DC) Booming Blade (as Sorcerer) Green Flame Blade Chill Touch Catapult (in her book but not prepared) Dissonant Whispers (Fey Touched, I get a free cast from this in addition to using slots) Dragon's Breath Flaming Sphere Tasha's Mind Whip In terms of damage, the most powerful among them is Tasha's Mind Whip, which upcast at 3rd level does 10.5 to two targets with a failed save (about 14 total on average considering saves). Considering chance to hit, a normal attack routine with a 20-strength 6th level fighter wielding a d8 weapon with dueling is going to average what I am doing with my most powerful damaging spell that I can cast a total of three times a day! There is no way that Wizard is going to come anywhere close to doing as much daily damage as a fighter. Typically, she is not going to do even 20% of the daily damage our fighter is going to do. If she purposely played stupidly and used every single slot to maximize damage she still would not come close to the Fighter in the party. Keep in mind too, that this is a multiclass with a level of Sorcerer and a feat giving her 5 more spells known. If she was a single class Wizard she would need to have and prepare Mage Armor, Sheild and Disguise Self and she would have even fewer damaging spells. There is nothing unusual about this build and with the exception of Catapult most of her spells are very common spells routinely chosen by optimizers. There are Wizard builds that do more damage than this build, but they would be weaker builds overall and still behind a Fighter. [/QUOTE]
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