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The Final Open RPG Creator (ORC) License Is Here!
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<blockquote data-quote="robertsconley" data-source="post: 9058490" data-attributes="member: 13383"><p>Given the track record of the OGL and clearly marking open content, I doubt this is going to something will cause a stink. Anybody making a stink about somebody reusing mechanics will socially find themselves on the wrong side of the argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p>My prediction is that 2nd generation ORC products will be just as uncommon as 2nd generation OGL products. That is products that don't just rely on one of the primary SRD (d20 SRD, 5e SRD) but also on a 3rd Party SRD. My <a href="https://www.enworld.org/[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]%20Seeing%20as%20how%20so%20many%203pp%27s%20can%27t%20even%20manage%20a%20simple%20OGL%20Section%2015%20properly,%20this%20sounds%20like%20a%20trainwreck%20in%20the%20making%20of%20further%20downstream%20products%20poisoning%20the%20OGL%20and%20ORC%20wells%20with%20incorrectly%20mingled%20content.[/QUOTE]%20Given%20the%20track%20record%20of%20the%20OGL%20and%20clearly%20marking%20open%20content,%20I%20doubt%20this%20is%20going%20to%20something%20will%20cause%20a%20stink.%20Anybody%20making%20a%20stink%20about%20somebody%20reusing%20mechanics%20will%20socially%20find%20themselves%20on%20the%20wrong%20side%20of%20the%20argument.%20%20[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]poisoning%20the%20OGL%20and%20ORC%20wells%20with%20incorrectly%20mingled%20content.[/QUOTE]%20My%20prediction%20is%20that%202nd%20generation%20ORC%20product%20will%20be%20just%20as%20uncommon%20as%202nd%20generation%20OGL%20products.%20That%20is%20products%20that%20don%27t%20just%20rely%20on%20one%20of%20the%20primary%20SRD%20(d20%20SRD,%205e%20SRD)%20but%20also%20on%20a%203rd%20Party%20SRD.%20My%20Basic%20Rules%20for%20the%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20RPG%20is%20a%202nd%20Generation%20as%20I%20used%20Swords%20&%20Wizardry%20as%20a%20base.%20%20%20[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]%20Even%20if%20it%20is%20a%20legally%20viable%20hack%20(and%20I%27d%20certainly%20get%20a%20lawyer%27s%20opinion%20of%20it,%20especially%20since%20the%20lawyers%20who%20wrote%20the%20license%20don%27t%20think%20that%20would%20work),%20I%20don%27t%20trust%20other%203pp%27s%20enough%20to%20go%20anywhere%20near%20something%20that%20overly%20convoluted%20in%20licensing.%20I%20want%20my%20content%20to%20be%20easily%20reused%20by%20others.%20[/QUOTE]%20I%20consulted%20with%20an%20attorney%20when%20I%20signed%20a%20license%20agreement%20with%20Judges%20Guild%20and%20planned%20to%20OGL%20content%20(rules).%20As%20well%20as%20asking%20questions%20about%20releasing%20open%20content%20as%20part%20of%20a%20Judges%20Guild%20licensed%20product.%20The%20general%20gist%20was%20that%20I%20was%20in%20the%20clear%20if%20I%20clearly%20segregated%20the%20two%20and%20only%20use%20my%20original%20IP%20in%20the%20open%20content.%20Which%20I%20did%20in%20my%20Majestic%20Wilderlands%20supplement.%20The%20first%20half%20were%20rules%20related%20material%20that%20was%20open%20content.%20And%20the%20names%20and%20concepts%20I%20referred%20to%20were%20my%20original%20IP.%20The%20second%20half%20is%20where%20I%20used%20the%20Judges%20Guild%20IP%20I%20license%20where%20I%20describe%20the%20Majestic%20Wilderlands.%20%20As%20for%20the%20Wilderland%20of%20High%20Fantasy%20remakes%20I%20made%20under%20license,%20I%20had%20to%20opt%20for%20a%20minimal%20declaration%20of%20open%20content,%20monsters,%20magic%20items,%20etc,%20as%20those%20were%20licensed%20remakes%20of%20Judges%20Guild%20IP.%20Like%20the%20original%20there%20were%20sections%20of%20rules%20and%20tables%20that%20were%20100%%20Judges%20Guild%20original%20IP%20so%20those%20were%20definitely%20product%20identity.%20%20%20Finally,%20these%20licenses%20are%20supposed%20to%20be%20used%20by%20lay%20people%20without%20going%20through%20the%20expense%20of%20hiring%20attorneys.%20%20%20The%20problem%20I%20find%20is%20folks%20deliberately%20deciding%20not%20to%20honor%20the%20spirit%20of%20these%20licenses.%20Mostly%20because%20they%20can%27t%20shake%20the%20need%20to%20own%20everything%20they%20write.%20As%20well%20as%20the%20need%20to%20control%20everything%20based%20on%20their%20writing.%20The%20only%20reason%20they%20were%20dealing%20with%20the%20OGL%20was%20because%20of%20the%20dominance%20of%20d20%20(in%20the%202000s)%20and%205e(in%20the%20late%202010s)%20systems%20in%20the%20market.%20%20%20Just%20like%20RPG%20systems%20can%20fix%20bad%20referees,%20open%20content%20licenses%20can%27t%20fix%20bad%20actors.%20%20can%20only%20defang%20them.%20%20%20If%20an%20author%20goes%20into%20writing%20a%20product%20with%20the%20intent%20of%20being%20open%20then%20a%20lot%20of%20these%20problems%20don%27t%20happen.%20The%20open%20content%20will%20be%20marked%20clearly%20and%20the%20product%20will%20be%20designed%20with%20this%20in%20mind." target="_blank">Basic Rules for the Majestic Fantasy RPG</a> is a 2nd Generation work as I used Swords & Wizardry as a base and S&W uses the d20srd as a base. </p><p></p><p>Also it will be interesting to see what the Orc licensed version of Pathfinder 2e will look like. Whether it has the entire package of terms and mechanics as the OGL version. If turns out they have only a few tweaks like dropping a few monsters and spells but still have class, level, armor class, hit points, etc that will be one thing. If they kept the general idea of those mechanics but renamed them completely then that will be another.</p><p></p><p>Also I think another issue going forward is the intermingling of CC-BY and ORC content. We are in the midst of a lag period that will take a year or two to resolve before we see a significant amount of ORC open content. In the meantime, people who care about open content have been using CC-BY quite a bit. The amount of OGL and CC-BY open content is going to mean that the use of the Third Party Reserved Content provisions of ORC is going to be common. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I consulted with an attorney when I signed a license agreement with Judges Guild and planned to OGL content (rules). As well as asking questions about releasing open content as part of a Judges Guild licensed product. The general gist was that I was in the clear if I clearly segregated the two and only use my original IP in the open content. Which I did in my Majestic Wilderlands supplement. The first half were rules related material that was open content. And the names and concepts I referred to were my original IP. The second half is where I used the Judges Guild IP I license where I describe the Majestic Wilderlands.</p><p></p><p>As for the Wilderland of High Fantasy remakes I made under license, I had to opt for a minimal declaration of open content, monsters, magic items, etc, as those were licensed remakes of Judges Guild IP. Like the original there were sections of rules and tables that were 100% Judges Guild original IP so those were definitely product identity.</p><p></p><p>Finally, these licenses are supposed to be used by lay people without going through the expense of hiring attorneys.</p><p></p><p>The problem I find is folks deliberately deciding not to honor the spirit of these licenses. Mostly because they can't shake the need to own everything they write. As well as the need to control everything based on their writing. The only reason they were dealing with the OGL was because of the dominance of d20 (in the 2000s) and 5e(in the late 2010s) systems in the market.</p><p></p><p>Just like RPG systems can fix bad referees, open content licenses can't fix bad actors. can only defang them.</p><p></p><p>If an author goes into writing a product with the intent of being open then a lot of these problems don't happen. The different types open content will be marked clearly and the product will be designed with this in mind.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="robertsconley, post: 9058490, member: 13383"] Given the track record of the OGL and clearly marking open content, I doubt this is going to something will cause a stink. Anybody making a stink about somebody reusing mechanics will socially find themselves on the wrong side of the argument. My prediction is that 2nd generation ORC products will be just as uncommon as 2nd generation OGL products. That is products that don't just rely on one of the primary SRD (d20 SRD, 5e SRD) but also on a 3rd Party SRD. My [URL='https://www.enworld.org/[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]%20Seeing%20as%20how%20so%20many%203pp%27s%20can%27t%20even%20manage%20a%20simple%20OGL%20Section%2015%20properly,%20this%20sounds%20like%20a%20trainwreck%20in%20the%20making%20of%20further%20downstream%20products%20poisoning%20the%20OGL%20and%20ORC%20wells%20with%20incorrectly%20mingled%20content.[/QUOTE]%20Given%20the%20track%20record%20of%20the%20OGL%20and%20clearly%20marking%20open%20content,%20I%20doubt%20this%20is%20going%20to%20something%20will%20cause%20a%20stink.%20Anybody%20making%20a%20stink%20about%20somebody%20reusing%20mechanics%20will%20socially%20find%20themselves%20on%20the%20wrong%20side%20of%20the%20argument.%20%20[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]poisoning%20the%20OGL%20and%20ORC%20wells%20with%20incorrectly%20mingled%20content.[/QUOTE]%20My%20prediction%20is%20that%202nd%20generation%20ORC%20product%20will%20be%20just%20as%20uncommon%20as%202nd%20generation%20OGL%20products.%20That%20is%20products%20that%20don%27t%20just%20rely%20on%20one%20of%20the%20primary%20SRD%20(d20%20SRD,%205e%20SRD)%20but%20also%20on%20a%203rd%20Party%20SRD.%20My%20Basic%20Rules%20for%20the%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20RPG%20is%20a%202nd%20Generation%20as%20I%20used%20Swords%20&%20Wizardry%20as%20a%20base.%20%20%20[QUOTE=%22kenmarable,%20post%3A%209058385,%20member%3A%2040359%22]%20Even%20if%20it%20is%20a%20legally%20viable%20hack%20(and%20I%27d%20certainly%20get%20a%20lawyer%27s%20opinion%20of%20it,%20especially%20since%20the%20lawyers%20who%20wrote%20the%20license%20don%27t%20think%20that%20would%20work),%20I%20don%27t%20trust%20other%203pp%27s%20enough%20to%20go%20anywhere%20near%20something%20that%20overly%20convoluted%20in%20licensing.%20I%20want%20my%20content%20to%20be%20easily%20reused%20by%20others.%20[/QUOTE]%20I%20consulted%20with%20an%20attorney%20when%20I%20signed%20a%20license%20agreement%20with%20Judges%20Guild%20and%20planned%20to%20OGL%20content%20(rules).%20As%20well%20as%20asking%20questions%20about%20releasing%20open%20content%20as%20part%20of%20a%20Judges%20Guild%20licensed%20product.%20The%20general%20gist%20was%20that%20I%20was%20in%20the%20clear%20if%20I%20clearly%20segregated%20the%20two%20and%20only%20use%20my%20original%20IP%20in%20the%20open%20content.%20Which%20I%20did%20in%20my%20Majestic%20Wilderlands%20supplement.%20The%20first%20half%20were%20rules%20related%20material%20that%20was%20open%20content.%20And%20the%20names%20and%20concepts%20I%20referred%20to%20were%20my%20original%20IP.%20The%20second%20half%20is%20where%20I%20used%20the%20Judges%20Guild%20IP%20I%20license%20where%20I%20describe%20the%20Majestic%20Wilderlands.%20%20As%20for%20the%20Wilderland%20of%20High%20Fantasy%20remakes%20I%20made%20under%20license,%20I%20had%20to%20opt%20for%20a%20minimal%20declaration%20of%20open%20content,%20monsters,%20magic%20items,%20etc,%20as%20those%20were%20licensed%20remakes%20of%20Judges%20Guild%20IP.%20Like%20the%20original%20there%20were%20sections%20of%20rules%20and%20tables%20that%20were%20100%%20Judges%20Guild%20original%20IP%20so%20those%20were%20definitely%20product%20identity.%20%20%20Finally,%20these%20licenses%20are%20supposed%20to%20be%20used%20by%20lay%20people%20without%20going%20through%20the%20expense%20of%20hiring%20attorneys.%20%20%20The%20problem%20I%20find%20is%20folks%20deliberately%20deciding%20not%20to%20honor%20the%20spirit%20of%20these%20licenses.%20Mostly%20because%20they%20can%27t%20shake%20the%20need%20to%20own%20everything%20they%20write.%20As%20well%20as%20the%20need%20to%20control%20everything%20based%20on%20their%20writing.%20The%20only%20reason%20they%20were%20dealing%20with%20the%20OGL%20was%20because%20of%20the%20dominance%20of%20d20%20(in%20the%202000s)%20and%205e(in%20the%20late%202010s)%20systems%20in%20the%20market.%20%20%20Just%20like%20RPG%20systems%20can%20fix%20bad%20referees,%20open%20content%20licenses%20can%27t%20fix%20bad%20actors.%20%20can%20only%20defang%20them.%20%20%20If%20an%20author%20goes%20into%20writing%20a%20product%20with%20the%20intent%20of%20being%20open%20then%20a%20lot%20of%20these%20problems%20don%27t%20happen.%20The%20open%20content%20will%20be%20marked%20clearly%20and%20the%20product%20will%20be%20designed%20with%20this%20in%20mind.']Basic Rules for the Majestic Fantasy RPG[/URL] is a 2nd Generation work as I used Swords & Wizardry as a base and S&W uses the d20srd as a base. Also it will be interesting to see what the Orc licensed version of Pathfinder 2e will look like. Whether it has the entire package of terms and mechanics as the OGL version. If turns out they have only a few tweaks like dropping a few monsters and spells but still have class, level, armor class, hit points, etc that will be one thing. If they kept the general idea of those mechanics but renamed them completely then that will be another. Also I think another issue going forward is the intermingling of CC-BY and ORC content. We are in the midst of a lag period that will take a year or two to resolve before we see a significant amount of ORC open content. In the meantime, people who care about open content have been using CC-BY quite a bit. The amount of OGL and CC-BY open content is going to mean that the use of the Third Party Reserved Content provisions of ORC is going to be common. I consulted with an attorney when I signed a license agreement with Judges Guild and planned to OGL content (rules). As well as asking questions about releasing open content as part of a Judges Guild licensed product. The general gist was that I was in the clear if I clearly segregated the two and only use my original IP in the open content. Which I did in my Majestic Wilderlands supplement. The first half were rules related material that was open content. And the names and concepts I referred to were my original IP. The second half is where I used the Judges Guild IP I license where I describe the Majestic Wilderlands. As for the Wilderland of High Fantasy remakes I made under license, I had to opt for a minimal declaration of open content, monsters, magic items, etc, as those were licensed remakes of Judges Guild IP. Like the original there were sections of rules and tables that were 100% Judges Guild original IP so those were definitely product identity. Finally, these licenses are supposed to be used by lay people without going through the expense of hiring attorneys. The problem I find is folks deliberately deciding not to honor the spirit of these licenses. Mostly because they can't shake the need to own everything they write. As well as the need to control everything based on their writing. The only reason they were dealing with the OGL was because of the dominance of d20 (in the 2000s) and 5e(in the late 2010s) systems in the market. Just like RPG systems can fix bad referees, open content licenses can't fix bad actors. can only defang them. If an author goes into writing a product with the intent of being open then a lot of these problems don't happen. The different types open content will be marked clearly and the product will be designed with this in mind. [/QUOTE]
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