Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7436126" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I've said this may times, myself. DPR is easy to calculate, it's low-hanging poison fruit on the balance tree. The temptation not only to base balance on DPR, but to do so with undue precision ("oh! there's a one-half hp average DPR difference between these two weapons - no on will ever take the weaker one!"), seems to be overwhelming sometimes, especially on line.</p><p></p><p>In the mean time, there's a lot more to the game, even to combat, than DPR. OK, yes, DPR (and focus fire) is pretty important in combat, given D&D's use of hps, and the fact that enemies' threat is not degraded by attacks until they hit 0, so it's not like it isn't a meaningful consideration. But other things, like versatility, can be extremely potent, too, and while not that hard to measure in the abstract (20 options is more than 2, options that can be recustomized daily are more versatile than those that are locked in, etc), it's very hard to quantify them in a way that can then be plugged into a convenient formula and compared to DPR. So balance often settles for rough DPR parity, and not a whole lot more. Because it's only 'rough' it can look imbalanced when it's just hard to analyze.</p><p></p><p>And, I didn't get the impression Zapp was unaware of that, since part of his concern was that fighters leaned so heavily on DPR specifically to balance all the other advantages of other classes, that they 'needed' the feats. If it were all just DPR, that wouldn't be an issue (for him), dropping the feats would do it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7436126, member: 996"] I've said this may times, myself. DPR is easy to calculate, it's low-hanging poison fruit on the balance tree. The temptation not only to base balance on DPR, but to do so with undue precision ("oh! there's a one-half hp average DPR difference between these two weapons - no on will ever take the weaker one!"), seems to be overwhelming sometimes, especially on line. In the mean time, there's a lot more to the game, even to combat, than DPR. OK, yes, DPR (and focus fire) is pretty important in combat, given D&D's use of hps, and the fact that enemies' threat is not degraded by attacks until they hit 0, so it's not like it isn't a meaningful consideration. But other things, like versatility, can be extremely potent, too, and while not that hard to measure in the abstract (20 options is more than 2, options that can be recustomized daily are more versatile than those that are locked in, etc), it's very hard to quantify them in a way that can then be plugged into a convenient formula and compared to DPR. So balance often settles for rough DPR parity, and not a whole lot more. Because it's only 'rough' it can look imbalanced when it's just hard to analyze. And, I didn't get the impression Zapp was unaware of that, since part of his concern was that fighters leaned so heavily on DPR specifically to balance all the other advantages of other classes, that they 'needed' the feats. If it were all just DPR, that wouldn't be an issue (for him), dropping the feats would do it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
Top