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The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7438053" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The OP is not about "DPR is king". (It neither affirms it, nor denies it.) It does take for granted that the main mechanical function of a fighter is to deal damage in combat. I don't think that's hugely controversial as a generalisation (a frequent criticism of 4e, after all, was that it had "fighters" whose main mechanical function was <em>not</em> to deal damage in combat).</p><p></p><p>I've sblocked sections of the OP, then comment on them.</p><p>[sblock][/sblock]This is all about balance across combat archetypes. As a starting pont damage should be comparable. A small concession to weapon "realism" is OK, but mostly it's fashion. (So the contrast between d4 daggers and d12 axes is implicity criticised.) Frail combatants get various forms of spike damage to compensate (wizards, rogues, etc).</p><p></p><p>There is no mention that wizards and rogues might get Charm Person instead of damage, but that can easily be factored into the point being made. The focus, in any event, is on "the fighting man", who does not get those sorts of options.</p><p></p><p>[sblock][/sblock]Mechanically optimised PCs do much more than that "fighting man" baseline, which makes life hard for the GM wanting to use monsters out of the books.</p><p></p><p>[sblock][/sblock]Without feats, "martials" get overshadowed <em>in the damage dealing department</em>. Which is, ostensibly, their main schtick. To point out that they're also overshadowed in the versatility department (most fighters don't get regular access to Charm Person) is only to add insult to injury!</p><p></p><p>And even with feats, some archetypes (eg knife throwers, it is asserted) can't get out of those shadows, because there are no feats (it is asserted) to buff their damage.</p><p></p><p>The upshot (it is asserted) is that you can either use feats, causing (i) GM headaches in relation to monsters not keeping up and (ii) crowding out a whole lot of archetypes that should, in principle, be viable in a FRPG; or you can not use feats, leaving martial PCs overshadowed by casters <em>even on their home turf of dealing damage</em>.</p><p></p><p>Nowhere in that post is there an assertion that "DPR is king". There is a <em>premise</em> that DPR is the main thing a martial PC brings to the table. Now maybe that's not true; but you can't show it's not true by talking about how great a Charm Person spell can be!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7438053, member: 42582"] The OP is not about "DPR is king". (It neither affirms it, nor denies it.) It does take for granted that the main mechanical function of a fighter is to deal damage in combat. I don't think that's hugely controversial as a generalisation (a frequent criticism of 4e, after all, was that it had "fighters" whose main mechanical function was [i]not[/i] to deal damage in combat). I've sblocked sections of the OP, then comment on them. [sblock][/sblock]This is all about balance across combat archetypes. As a starting pont damage should be comparable. A small concession to weapon "realism" is OK, but mostly it's fashion. (So the contrast between d4 daggers and d12 axes is implicity criticised.) Frail combatants get various forms of spike damage to compensate (wizards, rogues, etc). There is no mention that wizards and rogues might get Charm Person instead of damage, but that can easily be factored into the point being made. The focus, in any event, is on "the fighting man", who does not get those sorts of options. [sblock][/sblock]Mechanically optimised PCs do much more than that "fighting man" baseline, which makes life hard for the GM wanting to use monsters out of the books. [sblock][/sblock]Without feats, "martials" get overshadowed [i]in the damage dealing department[/i]. Which is, ostensibly, their main schtick. To point out that they're also overshadowed in the versatility department (most fighters don't get regular access to Charm Person) is only to add insult to injury! And even with feats, some archetypes (eg knife throwers, it is asserted) can't get out of those shadows, because there are no feats (it is asserted) to buff their damage. The upshot (it is asserted) is that you can either use feats, causing (i) GM headaches in relation to monsters not keeping up and (ii) crowding out a whole lot of archetypes that should, in principle, be viable in a FRPG; or you can not use feats, leaving martial PCs overshadowed by casters [i]even on their home turf of dealing damage[/i]. Nowhere in that post is there an assertion that "DPR is king". There is a [i]premise[/i] that DPR is the main thing a martial PC brings to the table. Now maybe that's not true; but you can't show it's not true by talking about how great a Charm Person spell can be! [/QUOTE]
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