Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7443292" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>No, just no. </p><p></p><p>The DPR is King line goes:</p><p>"Fighters, Barbarians, & Paladins are so awesome! Why does anyone play anything else?" "Hey, Warlocks & Rogues are pretty good too...</p><p>... you can tweak a Sorcerer to be awesome, also." "Don't sell my wizard short, if I line up a few enemies in an area, bam, DPR through the roof!" </p><p>"Man, you gotta love this game..."</p><p></p><p>Zap's grousing aside, DPR and it's close equivalents, like hp/healing resources, are the more visible, more nearly-balanceable tip of the D&D iceberg, precisely because they are so easily calculated. If only DPR /were/ King, designing & running the game would be so much simpler! ;P</p><p></p><p> The fighter's concept was articulated as "Best* at Fighting (with weapons)," and it's most dramatic class features - Extra Attack & Action Surge, both deliver on that via multi-attacking for relatively high DPR. It is, as we've both pointed out, baked in. </p><p>AC? hps? Plenty of classes meet or beat the Fighter, there. 'Other defenses?" The fighter has the same two save proficiencies, one important, one not so much, as most classes. The only significant, uniquely fighter feature that's not directly about DPR is Second Wind, and while it starts out pretty nice it doesn't scale fast enough to remain that significant for too long. Besides, hp & AC are just part of the DPR-dominated race to zero hps model of D&D, anyway. And that's only 1/3rd the story - the Combat Pillar - and not even nearly all of that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>* 'Best' in the 'best you can buy,' sense that no one else is provably /better/, not in the sense of being better than anyone else, necessarily.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7443292, member: 996"] No, just no. The DPR is King line goes: "Fighters, Barbarians, & Paladins are so awesome! Why does anyone play anything else?" "Hey, Warlocks & Rogues are pretty good too... ... you can tweak a Sorcerer to be awesome, also." "Don't sell my wizard short, if I line up a few enemies in an area, bam, DPR through the roof!" "Man, you gotta love this game..." Zap's grousing aside, DPR and it's close equivalents, like hp/healing resources, are the more visible, more nearly-balanceable tip of the D&D iceberg, precisely because they are so easily calculated. If only DPR /were/ King, designing & running the game would be so much simpler! ;P The fighter's concept was articulated as "Best* at Fighting (with weapons)," and it's most dramatic class features - Extra Attack & Action Surge, both deliver on that via multi-attacking for relatively high DPR. It is, as we've both pointed out, baked in. AC? hps? Plenty of classes meet or beat the Fighter, there. 'Other defenses?" The fighter has the same two save proficiencies, one important, one not so much, as most classes. The only significant, uniquely fighter feature that's not directly about DPR is Second Wind, and while it starts out pretty nice it doesn't scale fast enough to remain that significant for too long. Besides, hp & AC are just part of the DPR-dominated race to zero hps model of D&D, anyway. And that's only 1/3rd the story - the Combat Pillar - and not even nearly all of that. * 'Best' in the 'best you can buy,' sense that no one else is provably /better/, not in the sense of being better than anyone else, necessarily. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
Top