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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8716255" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p>Oh, there I agree. They've been everything from another-goblin to pigmen to ethnic expies to nature warrior to whatever WoW and Warhammer dragged back in (in an inspiration loop) to whatever people see them as today. </p><p></p><p>Here I get confused. Isn't this the opposite argument? They drifted to far away to be in the group, but then can't be slotted back in because they are too similar? I mean, yes, they often are mechanically and thematically similar. At start kobolds, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins were just the 1/2, 1D-1, 1, and 1D+1 HD versions of effectively the same* thing**. Orcs started with a little more tribal qualities and could align with neutral forces, but generally they all were pretty much just non-human enemies that used weapons. In the subsequent decades each has had a little spotlight, each got a turn to be the sneaky ones. But in the end, no, orcs and bugbears were mostly differentiated by the bugbears having more HD, and the occasional depiction as being ambushers.</p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">*I guess kobolds 1 worse and hobgoblins 1 better AC also distinguishes</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">**Bugbears coming out in Supplement I and being 3+1 HD and getting 2-8 damage instead of 1-6 gives them a clear difference, but one created by the change in how the game worked midway through.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 8716255, member: 6799660"] Oh, there I agree. They've been everything from another-goblin to pigmen to ethnic expies to nature warrior to whatever WoW and Warhammer dragged back in (in an inspiration loop) to whatever people see them as today. Here I get confused. Isn't this the opposite argument? They drifted to far away to be in the group, but then can't be slotted back in because they are too similar? I mean, yes, they often are mechanically and thematically similar. At start kobolds, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins were just the 1/2, 1D-1, 1, and 1D+1 HD versions of effectively the same* thing**. Orcs started with a little more tribal qualities and could align with neutral forces, but generally they all were pretty much just non-human enemies that used weapons. In the subsequent decades each has had a little spotlight, each got a turn to be the sneaky ones. But in the end, no, orcs and bugbears were mostly differentiated by the bugbears having more HD, and the occasional depiction as being ambushers. [SIZE=1]*I guess kobolds 1 worse and hobgoblins 1 better AC also distinguishes **Bugbears coming out in Supplement I and being 3+1 HD and getting 2-8 damage instead of 1-6 gives them a clear difference, but one created by the change in how the game worked midway through.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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