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The future of Juxtaposition - PreVote Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="WizO_Adele" data-source="post: 2565224"><p>Juxtaposition has been a setting in the ISRP area for over 5 years, and in that time many have come to love or hate it. It is with a conflicted heart that I announce that Juxtaposition is being removed as a standard setting for ISRP. The reasons are many, and irrelevant to this discussion. </p><p></p><p>The setting information will remain in skeleton form on the ISRP webpages to serve as a reference guide for characters, occasional adventures and potential theme nights in Limbo. </p><p></p><p>A new setting will be voted on to replace Juxta. The new setting will incorporate a marketplace similar theme. This will allow us to keep FG with no modifications (aside from his updated menu which shall premier with the new chat software). In the new setting ISRP WizO's will not serve as law enforcement, though may retain mentor status through staff positions or guild associations and responsibilities of that nature.</p><p></p><p>What I would like to do is present the options that the ISRP team has discussed, weighed and found to be in line with Wizards of the Coast's and the WizO's needs and goals. They do not remain exclusive and this is your opportunity to discuss the benefits, pros and cons of them with each other as well as present other options for our consideration. Along those lines I have presented some guidelines and a starting place. Ultimately, I'll review the discussion and make a final decision before presenting the vote. </p><p></p><p>The discussion will end Saturday May 28th.</p><p></p><p>Options:</p><p></p><p>*<strong>Integrate the marketplace with Greyhawk.</strong> This could entail either placing them in the same area of Greyhawk, or two separate areas of Greyhawk to make them more distinct. </p><p>Pros: </p><p>One fantasy setting for ISRP. </p><p>Simple, easy, and the default setting for DnD</p><p>Cons: </p><p>This may conflict and/or make difficult the Greyhawk setting modifications which we will present for vote and discussion shortly. An overview for planning purposes is that the Greyhawk setting would become a more setting enforced area, while the second fantasy area would be more of a true freeform with a greater range in character options and powers. </p><p></p><p>*<strong>Eberron</strong>. </p><p>Pros:</p><p>Showcases a relatively new setting. </p><p>Has a quickly growing fanbase on the internet. </p><p>We would be one of the first to offer IC opportunities to play it. Additionally it is not completely mapped out and we would have more opportunity to establish ourselves within it. </p><p>Plenty of material available and forthcoming.</p><p>New so people can start at the beginning</p><p>Cons:</p><p>Technology may be an issue, unless we are looking to have one low technology (Greyhawk), one medium and one high technology (TMP) setting.</p><p></p><p>*<strong>Forgotten Realms</strong>. </p><p>Pros:</p><p>Highly popular.</p><p>Simple, easy, and everyone knows it.</p><p>Cons:</p><p>Always changing, very magic heavy setting (though magic heavy could be a bonus for a wide range freeform room)</p><p></p><p>*<strong>Homebrew </strong> - If we went this route it would be as TMP was, created heavily by the patrons, which would require a lot of participation and help. So if you want to vote on this, please be prepared to contribute or your mileage will vary.</p><p>Pros:</p><p>Patrons would have more control over setting modifications</p><p>Simple, adaptable, no worrying about rules lawyers/etc</p><p>Cons:</p><p>Creation could take some time which might cause a conflict for timing with the new chat software release. We would want the patrons to be highly involved, which is not always what the patrons may want. </p><p>Might not be as in-depth as a current published setting. </p><p>People trying to take over the setting ala TMP, people complaining lack of material, lot of work to start</p><p></p><p>================================</p><p><strong>Potentials:</strong></p><p>Planescape. I know several patrons suggested Sigil before and I'm willing to entertain this further provided good pros and few cons are present. </p><p>Sigil Pros:</p><p> * Infinite possibilities for visitors (ala Juxta)</p><p> * Was a very popular setting at one stage</p><p> * Does have a lot of source material floating around and not many competitors</p><p> * The setting adapts itself and changes constantly</p><p> *Infinite possibility, allows easy explanation for our "weird" patrons, by nature adapts</p><p> * Explains all the weird beings better, and many of the regulars have at least some notion of Sigil</p><p>Sigil Cons:</p><p> * Setting is semi-oppressive and has some rules people are likely to complain about (like no worshipping)</p><p> * Lot of people are likely to see it as a new skin on Juxta</p><p> * Sigil has a lot of factions that take notice/influence, running all that would be part of the setting and could be tedious</p><p> * Hard to explain, rather "strict" setting, no real authority figures besides the Lady of Pain.</p><p> * With those that actually play the setting, spill-over to the CRT (which is still bound to happen), if the proposed changes to strengthen the "normal" Greyhawk campaign setting go through, will look even odder.</p><p></p><p>===================</p><p><strong>Things I am vetoing and why:</strong></p><p>* Dragonlance and Spelljammer. I feel they are outdated. The settings are highly variable depending on which version you go by and individual interpretation. I would like to see settings that allow the most flexibility in character types, power levels, and regions of origin. This will better compliment the changes proposed for Greyhawk.</p><p>* Dark Sun (discontinued, hard to explain, player hostile, barely remembered)</p><p>* Al Qadim (I love Arabian Nights... but this really isn't going to be un to run as a room)</p><p>* Anything on an outerplane such as Celestia, The Abyss, etc</p><p>* Ravenloft as the setting is now the intellectual property of White Wolf.</p><p>* Moving the CRT again. I am far too hesitant to further disrupt what is an icon of history for the ISRP area. </p><p></p><p>=======================</p><p><strong>Some items to consider when selecting a setting:</strong></p><p>* Setting needs to be "stable", no one which is likely to suddenly undergo a random overhaul in the near future, a new cataclysm etc</p><p>* Setting needs to be in a defined period (preferably current) so as to avoid problems like we've had with people claiming which Gods are alive, which Gods are dead and which Gods do not exist yet.</p><p>* Setting needs to be close enough to a stereotype we can explain it to people in one short paragraph and they'll understand the basic groundwork. Part of the problem with Juxta was you didn't know what you could and couldn't do until you read a twenty page manual on the house rules of the setting.</p><p>* Setting needs to be character friendly, at least where the room is set. We want people to want to go there willingly and with ease, not turn up to be attacked/oppressed by the world itself.</p><p>* For our proposal of one strict setting and one relaxed setting to work the new setting needs to have a large range of suitable character types and powers, and allow for them to appear mainstream. </p><p></p><p>If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to post them here or e-mail myself at <strong>adele@wizo.wizards.com</strong>. Please help to spread the word among your friends. I realize the message boards are not as frequented as we like and I'd like to see this important changeover and those pending, be considered and weighed in on by the majority - not minority - of our patron base.</p><p></p><p></p><p>WizO_Adele</p><p>ISRP Area Lead</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WizO_Adele, post: 2565224"] Juxtaposition has been a setting in the ISRP area for over 5 years, and in that time many have come to love or hate it. It is with a conflicted heart that I announce that Juxtaposition is being removed as a standard setting for ISRP. The reasons are many, and irrelevant to this discussion. The setting information will remain in skeleton form on the ISRP webpages to serve as a reference guide for characters, occasional adventures and potential theme nights in Limbo. A new setting will be voted on to replace Juxta. The new setting will incorporate a marketplace similar theme. This will allow us to keep FG with no modifications (aside from his updated menu which shall premier with the new chat software). In the new setting ISRP WizO's will not serve as law enforcement, though may retain mentor status through staff positions or guild associations and responsibilities of that nature. What I would like to do is present the options that the ISRP team has discussed, weighed and found to be in line with Wizards of the Coast's and the WizO's needs and goals. They do not remain exclusive and this is your opportunity to discuss the benefits, pros and cons of them with each other as well as present other options for our consideration. Along those lines I have presented some guidelines and a starting place. Ultimately, I'll review the discussion and make a final decision before presenting the vote. The discussion will end Saturday May 28th. Options: *[B]Integrate the marketplace with Greyhawk.[/B] This could entail either placing them in the same area of Greyhawk, or two separate areas of Greyhawk to make them more distinct. Pros: One fantasy setting for ISRP. Simple, easy, and the default setting for DnD Cons: This may conflict and/or make difficult the Greyhawk setting modifications which we will present for vote and discussion shortly. An overview for planning purposes is that the Greyhawk setting would become a more setting enforced area, while the second fantasy area would be more of a true freeform with a greater range in character options and powers. *[B]Eberron[/B]. Pros: Showcases a relatively new setting. Has a quickly growing fanbase on the internet. We would be one of the first to offer IC opportunities to play it. Additionally it is not completely mapped out and we would have more opportunity to establish ourselves within it. Plenty of material available and forthcoming. New so people can start at the beginning Cons: Technology may be an issue, unless we are looking to have one low technology (Greyhawk), one medium and one high technology (TMP) setting. *[B]Forgotten Realms[/B]. Pros: Highly popular. Simple, easy, and everyone knows it. Cons: Always changing, very magic heavy setting (though magic heavy could be a bonus for a wide range freeform room) *[B]Homebrew [/B] - If we went this route it would be as TMP was, created heavily by the patrons, which would require a lot of participation and help. So if you want to vote on this, please be prepared to contribute or your mileage will vary. Pros: Patrons would have more control over setting modifications Simple, adaptable, no worrying about rules lawyers/etc Cons: Creation could take some time which might cause a conflict for timing with the new chat software release. We would want the patrons to be highly involved, which is not always what the patrons may want. Might not be as in-depth as a current published setting. People trying to take over the setting ala TMP, people complaining lack of material, lot of work to start ================================ [B]Potentials:[/B] Planescape. I know several patrons suggested Sigil before and I'm willing to entertain this further provided good pros and few cons are present. Sigil Pros: * Infinite possibilities for visitors (ala Juxta) * Was a very popular setting at one stage * Does have a lot of source material floating around and not many competitors * The setting adapts itself and changes constantly *Infinite possibility, allows easy explanation for our "weird" patrons, by nature adapts * Explains all the weird beings better, and many of the regulars have at least some notion of Sigil Sigil Cons: * Setting is semi-oppressive and has some rules people are likely to complain about (like no worshipping) * Lot of people are likely to see it as a new skin on Juxta * Sigil has a lot of factions that take notice/influence, running all that would be part of the setting and could be tedious * Hard to explain, rather "strict" setting, no real authority figures besides the Lady of Pain. * With those that actually play the setting, spill-over to the CRT (which is still bound to happen), if the proposed changes to strengthen the "normal" Greyhawk campaign setting go through, will look even odder. =================== [B]Things I am vetoing and why:[/B] * Dragonlance and Spelljammer. I feel they are outdated. The settings are highly variable depending on which version you go by and individual interpretation. I would like to see settings that allow the most flexibility in character types, power levels, and regions of origin. This will better compliment the changes proposed for Greyhawk. * Dark Sun (discontinued, hard to explain, player hostile, barely remembered) * Al Qadim (I love Arabian Nights... but this really isn't going to be un to run as a room) * Anything on an outerplane such as Celestia, The Abyss, etc * Ravenloft as the setting is now the intellectual property of White Wolf. * Moving the CRT again. I am far too hesitant to further disrupt what is an icon of history for the ISRP area. ======================= [B]Some items to consider when selecting a setting:[/B] * Setting needs to be "stable", no one which is likely to suddenly undergo a random overhaul in the near future, a new cataclysm etc * Setting needs to be in a defined period (preferably current) so as to avoid problems like we've had with people claiming which Gods are alive, which Gods are dead and which Gods do not exist yet. * Setting needs to be close enough to a stereotype we can explain it to people in one short paragraph and they'll understand the basic groundwork. Part of the problem with Juxta was you didn't know what you could and couldn't do until you read a twenty page manual on the house rules of the setting. * Setting needs to be character friendly, at least where the room is set. We want people to want to go there willingly and with ease, not turn up to be attacked/oppressed by the world itself. * For our proposal of one strict setting and one relaxed setting to work the new setting needs to have a large range of suitable character types and powers, and allow for them to appear mainstream. If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to post them here or e-mail myself at [B]adele@wizo.wizards.com[/B]. Please help to spread the word among your friends. I realize the message boards are not as frequented as we like and I'd like to see this important changeover and those pending, be considered and weighed in on by the majority - not minority - of our patron base. WizO_Adele ISRP Area Lead [/QUOTE]
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