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The Grappler's Manual (2.0) - Grappling in 5th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Colder" data-source="post: 6786271" data-attributes="member: 6807965"><p>The spell says you take the form of a creature who's CR is less than or equal to the target's CR or level if it doesn't have one. But you say it's not the CR of the form you choose to transform into, but the CR of the form <em>after</em> you transform into it? If that's the case, and you don't replace the entire character sheet with a stat block like how I say the spell should work, then it's impossible to transform into a creature who's base CR is anywhere near your own since all those extra skills, class features, and whatnot all add to the CR of the new form. To know for sure, the DM would have to calculate the polymorphed form's CR from scratch and that significantly slows down gameplay at the table.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That rule only applies to transforming into legendary creatures. There are still limits that are applied to transforming into all kinds of creatures.</p><p></p><p>The limits are implied by the rules of other methods of shapeshifting. Take a look at the rules for Wildshape: there's a lot more than there are for polymorph, and many of them are exceptions to the rule that "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast." The most notable ones are "You rtain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature" and "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so."</p><p></p><p>Also, the Shapechange spell. "You also retain all your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creatur. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus in place of yours" and "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physicially capable of doing so."</p><p></p><p>So Wildshape and Shapechange actually work the way you imagine True Polymorph to work. Since True Polymorph's description doesn't have the same exceptions, then "the target's game statistics... are replaced by the statistics of the new form" must mean that the spell works by taking away the player's character sheet and giving them a stat block from the Monster Manual.</p><p></p><p>But we've hijacked this thread for long enough. I think I've at least made it clear that you can't become a dragon with proficiency in athletics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Colder, post: 6786271, member: 6807965"] The spell says you take the form of a creature who's CR is less than or equal to the target's CR or level if it doesn't have one. But you say it's not the CR of the form you choose to transform into, but the CR of the form [i]after[/i] you transform into it? If that's the case, and you don't replace the entire character sheet with a stat block like how I say the spell should work, then it's impossible to transform into a creature who's base CR is anywhere near your own since all those extra skills, class features, and whatnot all add to the CR of the new form. To know for sure, the DM would have to calculate the polymorphed form's CR from scratch and that significantly slows down gameplay at the table. That rule only applies to transforming into legendary creatures. There are still limits that are applied to transforming into all kinds of creatures. The limits are implied by the rules of other methods of shapeshifting. Take a look at the rules for Wildshape: there's a lot more than there are for polymorph, and many of them are exceptions to the rule that "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast." The most notable ones are "You rtain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature" and "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." Also, the Shapechange spell. "You also retain all your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creatur. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus in place of yours" and "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physicially capable of doing so." So Wildshape and Shapechange actually work the way you imagine True Polymorph to work. Since True Polymorph's description doesn't have the same exceptions, then "the target's game statistics... are replaced by the statistics of the new form" must mean that the spell works by taking away the player's character sheet and giving them a stat block from the Monster Manual. But we've hijacked this thread for long enough. I think I've at least made it clear that you can't become a dragon with proficiency in athletics. [/QUOTE]
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