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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Healing Paradox
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5947468" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>What's arguably bad about the healing surge mechanic, itself? Other than that you simply don't like them or they're different from what D&D had in the past, that is?</p><p></p><p>As for the warlord archetype, "shout healing" is probably more prevalent in heroic fantasy and cinema than the D&D cleric. I mean, seriously, a guy in full armor with a mace who stands behind you and heals you as you get beat up? Name one character that behaves like a D&D cleric from any pre-D&D source. </p><p></p><p>D&D hit points and healing have always been very unrealistic and counter-genre, but they do make the game a lot more playable than more 'realistic' or 'genre-faithful' games that include impairing wounds, limited healing, and the like.</p><p></p><p>Healing surges at least take the Cleric out of the absurd 'band aid' role, eliminate player-manufacturable wands and potions of unlimitted hp recovery, and instead put healing as a resource in the hands of each character. That greatly enhances balance and playability. It only strains credulity if you have a problem with hit points, themselves (which a lot of folks always have, I'll readily admit). The idea that individuals have personal limits to their recuperative abilities, even with outside aid is actually quite realistic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you want to define D&D by it's flaws, then, yes, any improvement is not D&D. Giving everyone BAB and multiple attacks is a big steaming pile of not-AD&D, for instance. Clerics able to cast spells at 1st level? That is such a load of not-0D&D.</p><p></p><p>Putting aside that a party could often get by fine without a fighter (say, at higher level, when your Iron Golem makes a great blocker and is healed with the same fireballs that kill your enemies; or in 3e with an Animal Companion or summoned critter or self-buffing cleric taking his place), why is that remotely desireable? Because that's how it's always been?</p><p></p><p></p><p>A fair chunk of it. The only other candidate is people being put off by the religious angle.</p><p></p><p>3e tried that. It made cure spells more powerful and let Clerics cast them spontaneously. It made CLW Wands cheap and even cheaper to make. The result, without his spell power 'vampired' away with healing, the Cleric was utterly broken. CoDzilla was born.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5947468, member: 996"] What's arguably bad about the healing surge mechanic, itself? Other than that you simply don't like them or they're different from what D&D had in the past, that is? As for the warlord archetype, "shout healing" is probably more prevalent in heroic fantasy and cinema than the D&D cleric. I mean, seriously, a guy in full armor with a mace who stands behind you and heals you as you get beat up? Name one character that behaves like a D&D cleric from any pre-D&D source. D&D hit points and healing have always been very unrealistic and counter-genre, but they do make the game a lot more playable than more 'realistic' or 'genre-faithful' games that include impairing wounds, limited healing, and the like. Healing surges at least take the Cleric out of the absurd 'band aid' role, eliminate player-manufacturable wands and potions of unlimitted hp recovery, and instead put healing as a resource in the hands of each character. That greatly enhances balance and playability. It only strains credulity if you have a problem with hit points, themselves (which a lot of folks always have, I'll readily admit). The idea that individuals have personal limits to their recuperative abilities, even with outside aid is actually quite realistic. If you want to define D&D by it's flaws, then, yes, any improvement is not D&D. Giving everyone BAB and multiple attacks is a big steaming pile of not-AD&D, for instance. Clerics able to cast spells at 1st level? That is such a load of not-0D&D. Putting aside that a party could often get by fine without a fighter (say, at higher level, when your Iron Golem makes a great blocker and is healed with the same fireballs that kill your enemies; or in 3e with an Animal Companion or summoned critter or self-buffing cleric taking his place), why is that remotely desireable? Because that's how it's always been? A fair chunk of it. The only other candidate is people being put off by the religious angle. 3e tried that. It made cure spells more powerful and let Clerics cast them spontaneously. It made CLW Wands cheap and even cheaper to make. The result, without his spell power 'vampired' away with healing, the Cleric was utterly broken. CoDzilla was born. [/QUOTE]
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