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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Importantance of Time
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 8979286" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>And yet the more you play those games the quicker they become soulless as the veneer wears off.</p><p></p><p>Limitations make for better and better lasting gameplay.</p><p></p><p>It can be likened to the effect cheating has on how fun a game is. It can be immediately fun to have all constraints lifted, but it simultaneously makes returning to the original gameplay loop feel increasingly tedius, which robs the game of the ability to provide the same fun you had with it originally.</p><p></p><p>This incidentally is why I could sit and actually play Skyrim on my Switch but just can't be bothered to for very long on PC, even with mods. But this is also why I can now no longer get into it on my Switch when I discovered (by accident) some exploits.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Players often don't know what they actually need to get more fun out of their experience, and many won't recognize what its doing even when they get it.</p><p></p><p>Theres a reason, after all, most TTRPGs tend to play better and foster more fun when you play them strictly as intended.</p><p></p><p>Time as a constraint doesn't stop you from doing things or exploring. It makes the things you do and the places you explore <em>matter</em>, because theres effort being utilized that justifies the reward.</p><p></p><p>If you remove all effort, the rewards lose their value. Any value that remains wasn't being fostered by the game itself in the first place and is thus irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>Sure, exploring Moria with no actual constraints or limitations can be valuable, as someone might have designed Moria to be this huge, living dungeon with a deep amount of lore associated with it.</p><p></p><p>But that all has nothing to do with the game. You don't need a game to explore Moria in that sense. You don't even need Fellowship to explore it either, for that matter.</p><p></p><p>But if you are going to explore it through a medium other than meta examination, like through a book or a game, then you need to make the mechanical operation of that exploration actually matter.</p><p></p><p>In Fellowship, the group spends days traversing the mine with a modicum of stealth, and they must do this as their mission must suceed.</p><p></p><p>But, eventually, they fail, and inadvertently disrupt not just the Goblins but the Balrog too, leading to a prominent character's death and an ongoing tragedy and sense of loss in the survivors.</p><p></p><p>You couldn't accomplish this outcome without the constraints of time, and any attempt to do so would fall short, as the many cruddy derivatives of LOTR over the near century have proven.</p><p></p><p>And in a TTRPG, the same exact problem presents itself. If time doesn't matter, then anything you're doing is at best a facsimile of what it could be, all because we for some reason don't want to put in the bare minimum to make the gameworld feel more real.</p><p></p><p>And its not like time can't be used incorrectly; it absolutely can and has in many iterations. Even in DND, we see that fundamental problem with the traditional focus on Rests being used to restore game resources.</p><p></p><p>Rests are not only a poor means for this, but they also put undue constraints on how the gameworld can progress in terms of time, and any unbalance in that system leads to even more problems.</p><p></p><p>That people believe Gritty Realism to be better for the games mechanics is the best example of this, with the mechanics being so out of wack that entire weeks worth of time have to be abstracted just to make the game work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 8979286, member: 7040941"] And yet the more you play those games the quicker they become soulless as the veneer wears off. Limitations make for better and better lasting gameplay. It can be likened to the effect cheating has on how fun a game is. It can be immediately fun to have all constraints lifted, but it simultaneously makes returning to the original gameplay loop feel increasingly tedius, which robs the game of the ability to provide the same fun you had with it originally. This incidentally is why I could sit and actually play Skyrim on my Switch but just can't be bothered to for very long on PC, even with mods. But this is also why I can now no longer get into it on my Switch when I discovered (by accident) some exploits. Players often don't know what they actually need to get more fun out of their experience, and many won't recognize what its doing even when they get it. Theres a reason, after all, most TTRPGs tend to play better and foster more fun when you play them strictly as intended. Time as a constraint doesn't stop you from doing things or exploring. It makes the things you do and the places you explore [I]matter[/I], because theres effort being utilized that justifies the reward. If you remove all effort, the rewards lose their value. Any value that remains wasn't being fostered by the game itself in the first place and is thus irrelevant. Sure, exploring Moria with no actual constraints or limitations can be valuable, as someone might have designed Moria to be this huge, living dungeon with a deep amount of lore associated with it. But that all has nothing to do with the game. You don't need a game to explore Moria in that sense. You don't even need Fellowship to explore it either, for that matter. But if you are going to explore it through a medium other than meta examination, like through a book or a game, then you need to make the mechanical operation of that exploration actually matter. In Fellowship, the group spends days traversing the mine with a modicum of stealth, and they must do this as their mission must suceed. But, eventually, they fail, and inadvertently disrupt not just the Goblins but the Balrog too, leading to a prominent character's death and an ongoing tragedy and sense of loss in the survivors. You couldn't accomplish this outcome without the constraints of time, and any attempt to do so would fall short, as the many cruddy derivatives of LOTR over the near century have proven. And in a TTRPG, the same exact problem presents itself. If time doesn't matter, then anything you're doing is at best a facsimile of what it could be, all because we for some reason don't want to put in the bare minimum to make the gameworld feel more real. And its not like time can't be used incorrectly; it absolutely can and has in many iterations. Even in DND, we see that fundamental problem with the traditional focus on Rests being used to restore game resources. Rests are not only a poor means for this, but they also put undue constraints on how the gameworld can progress in terms of time, and any unbalance in that system leads to even more problems. That people believe Gritty Realism to be better for the games mechanics is the best example of this, with the mechanics being so out of wack that entire weeks worth of time have to be abstracted just to make the game work. [/QUOTE]
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