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The Knight Eldritch (Eldritch Knight decoupling onto the Wizard) [very early version]
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7577258" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>I doubt it. I also doubt that Hexblade is even ahead of Archfey or Great Old One because of any kind of power analysis. It's ahead because a lot of people want to play a gish, and it's one of the most straightforward options for that that isn't primarily something entirely other than a gish. The Hexblade turns the Warlock into a gish, and that is why it's so popular. </p><p></p><p></p><p> The Hexblade doesn't excel at everything, so I'm not sure how that is even a counterpoint to anything. If you want to focus on melee as a warlock, you're gonna lose out on a lot of other stuff like out of combat utility, range efficacy, etc. The bolded [by me] part is just completely unrelated to anything I said. The mechanics and balance of <em>the game</em> matters. Analysing parts of a sublcass as if they stand alone doesn't tell us anything meaningful about the balance of a character using that subclass in play. A Melee Warlock using Hexblade isn't overpowered compared to a blaster Warlock using Fiend. </p><p></p><p>"why even have mechanics, then!?" isn't a useful counterpoint to that. We're both comparing mechanics. I'm just doing so in a way that will actually reflect what happens at a table. Because it's a game. What happens in play is objectively the most important factor. </p><p></p><p></p><p> Objectively false. The Hexblade gets basic melee competence in a neat package. That's it. They still aren't equal to a higher level multiclass build, and suggesting that they are more powerful than such a build is complete nonsense. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Who said it did? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> And in that context, it is useless to break off individual features and compare them as if in a vacuum. The War Cleric gets extra proficiencies on top of everything other clerics get. The Blade Bard gets extra proficiencies on top of what every other college gets. Getting proficiency is part of the structure of subclasses that turn a non-melee focused class and give it a melee focused subclass in 5th edition dnd. Acting like these proficiencies are a free feat on top of the normal subclass structure is disingenuous and unhelpful. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> see above</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) If it's the only thing the subclass does, sure. Since that isn't on the table, I don't care. </p><p></p><p>2) No. That should absolutely not be a restriction when building a new option. It should get stuff at the same levels, it shouldn't be a much more powerful <em>total package</em> than the good subclasses for that class, and it should mechanically support the narrative concept of the subclass and the base class. That's it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7577258, member: 6704184"] I doubt it. I also doubt that Hexblade is even ahead of Archfey or Great Old One because of any kind of power analysis. It's ahead because a lot of people want to play a gish, and it's one of the most straightforward options for that that isn't primarily something entirely other than a gish. The Hexblade turns the Warlock into a gish, and that is why it's so popular. The Hexblade doesn't excel at everything, so I'm not sure how that is even a counterpoint to anything. If you want to focus on melee as a warlock, you're gonna lose out on a lot of other stuff like out of combat utility, range efficacy, etc. The bolded [by me] part is just completely unrelated to anything I said. The mechanics and balance of [I]the game[/I] matters. Analysing parts of a sublcass as if they stand alone doesn't tell us anything meaningful about the balance of a character using that subclass in play. A Melee Warlock using Hexblade isn't overpowered compared to a blaster Warlock using Fiend. "why even have mechanics, then!?" isn't a useful counterpoint to that. We're both comparing mechanics. I'm just doing so in a way that will actually reflect what happens at a table. Because it's a game. What happens in play is objectively the most important factor. Objectively false. The Hexblade gets basic melee competence in a neat package. That's it. They still aren't equal to a higher level multiclass build, and suggesting that they are more powerful than such a build is complete nonsense. Who said it did? And in that context, it is useless to break off individual features and compare them as if in a vacuum. The War Cleric gets extra proficiencies on top of everything other clerics get. The Blade Bard gets extra proficiencies on top of what every other college gets. Getting proficiency is part of the structure of subclasses that turn a non-melee focused class and give it a melee focused subclass in 5th edition dnd. Acting like these proficiencies are a free feat on top of the normal subclass structure is disingenuous and unhelpful. see above 1) If it's the only thing the subclass does, sure. Since that isn't on the table, I don't care. 2) No. That should absolutely not be a restriction when building a new option. It should get stuff at the same levels, it shouldn't be a much more powerful [I]total package[/I] than the good subclasses for that class, and it should mechanically support the narrative concept of the subclass and the base class. That's it. [/QUOTE]
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