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The legal ramifications of Baleful Polymorph
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3384822" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Not so much. The thing that bother's people about compulsions, or to be more exacting the thing that I think would bother people about compulsions if they existed, is that a compulsion undermines people's ability to judge other people's character and to act in accordance with thier own character. Fraud and betrayal are in many was more frightening than merely being killed, or even being turned into a rabbit. Scariest of all is self-betrayal. Someone is turned into a rabbit, and that is an observable fact. His neighbor can say, "Joe has been turned into a rabbit, that's why he's eating grass." But then the neighbor goes out the next day and see's Bill eating grass, and Bill says to him, "Someone enchanted me so that I wanted to eat grass." That is not an observable fact. How can you tell whether someone is enchanted or whether or not someone just says they are enchanted? Let's up the stakes. Joe gets turned into a lion, and Joe's neighbor observes Joe in the form of a lion devouring his own daughter. That's tragic, but Joe's neighbor knows that Joe is only doing it because Joe has been turned into a wild animal. On the other hand, the neighbor observes Bill as Bill killing his daughter. Bill says, "Some one enchanted me and made me do this?" </p><p></p><p>From the perspective of Bill and Joe, both are equally horrible. But from the perspective of the neighbor, Joe is only untrustworthy when he is a lion. But Bill is now untrustworthy period, because how can you know? Joe, unless it can be shown he's a powerful wizard capable of changing into a lion, has a clear alibi. But what about Bill? All the evidence for the compulsion is probably gone by the time the experts show up to diagnosis the issue.</p><p></p><p>Your average mundane learns that someone with the potential to do either of these things is around, and his general feeling is not "How cool." or even "Meh." </p><p></p><p>And I think the the degree of violation you'd experience is different. The rabbit is being 'held' against its will, but its not being made to serve someone else's will. The rabbit still isn't a puppet. But someone that is being charmed and dominated is being violated in a way that exceeds any comparable experience.</p><p></p><p>In my campaign, if people learn you can cast 'charm person', they tend to look at you like you announced you were a child rapist.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good question. I've never really considered it. I guess because charisma enhancing objects were so rare in earlier editions that it never crossed my mind. My gut instinct is to say, "No.", but I can't really explain clearly why I think so yet. I think though that if you used an enchantment of any sort to commit fraud, say establishing a relationship based on false pretenses, that people would tend to see that as something more horrific than simple deceit - larceny magnified to its most horrific level. But, on the whole I think they'd see fraud as being less vile than compulsion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3384822, member: 4937"] Not so much. The thing that bother's people about compulsions, or to be more exacting the thing that I think would bother people about compulsions if they existed, is that a compulsion undermines people's ability to judge other people's character and to act in accordance with thier own character. Fraud and betrayal are in many was more frightening than merely being killed, or even being turned into a rabbit. Scariest of all is self-betrayal. Someone is turned into a rabbit, and that is an observable fact. His neighbor can say, "Joe has been turned into a rabbit, that's why he's eating grass." But then the neighbor goes out the next day and see's Bill eating grass, and Bill says to him, "Someone enchanted me so that I wanted to eat grass." That is not an observable fact. How can you tell whether someone is enchanted or whether or not someone just says they are enchanted? Let's up the stakes. Joe gets turned into a lion, and Joe's neighbor observes Joe in the form of a lion devouring his own daughter. That's tragic, but Joe's neighbor knows that Joe is only doing it because Joe has been turned into a wild animal. On the other hand, the neighbor observes Bill as Bill killing his daughter. Bill says, "Some one enchanted me and made me do this?" From the perspective of Bill and Joe, both are equally horrible. But from the perspective of the neighbor, Joe is only untrustworthy when he is a lion. But Bill is now untrustworthy period, because how can you know? Joe, unless it can be shown he's a powerful wizard capable of changing into a lion, has a clear alibi. But what about Bill? All the evidence for the compulsion is probably gone by the time the experts show up to diagnosis the issue. Your average mundane learns that someone with the potential to do either of these things is around, and his general feeling is not "How cool." or even "Meh." And I think the the degree of violation you'd experience is different. The rabbit is being 'held' against its will, but its not being made to serve someone else's will. The rabbit still isn't a puppet. But someone that is being charmed and dominated is being violated in a way that exceeds any comparable experience. In my campaign, if people learn you can cast 'charm person', they tend to look at you like you announced you were a child rapist. Good question. I've never really considered it. I guess because charisma enhancing objects were so rare in earlier editions that it never crossed my mind. My gut instinct is to say, "No.", but I can't really explain clearly why I think so yet. I think though that if you used an enchantment of any sort to commit fraud, say establishing a relationship based on false pretenses, that people would tend to see that as something more horrific than simple deceit - larceny magnified to its most horrific level. But, on the whole I think they'd see fraud as being less vile than compulsion. [/QUOTE]
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