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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8250717" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Thing is, what's the only common denominator all those games had?</p><p></p><p>You.</p><p></p><p>Are/were you approaching dungeon crawls with a default hack-first mentality perhaps?</p><p></p><p>Like I said upthread, any dunegon can become a hack-a-thon if that's how you and the other players in-character decide to approach it.</p><p></p><p>For a contrary example, I just finished running a session for a 1st-level group. Party is deep in a dungeon. Session consisted of:</p><p></p><p>Spelunking. They'd searched everything except a staircase down from the bottom of a sarcophagus which turns into a shaft leading down to standing water; shaft has a secret door in its side partway down which it took them a while to find.</p><p></p><p>Puzzle-solving. Room outside shaft has a big imposing door with a dozen carvings including a ship, a rainbow, a tree, a dragon, a puppy dog, etc. Party spent a while puzzling over this, then realized they could safely pass the door and carry on. [SPOILER] DM note: the carvings are pure dungeon dressing and have no actual significance. [/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>Exploration into some empty areas, then a trap, no lasting harm done. (this level is a relatively linear bit of the dungeon, unlike the highly-jacquay-like parts above)</p><p></p><p>Encounter. Party hear sounds and voices behind a door. Instead of charging in they knock on the door and open polite conversation with what they think by its voice is a Hobgoblin (the door remained closed throughout), one of - from the sound if it - several. Party leave on peaceful terms.</p><p></p><p>Encounter. Party find an underground lake with a hut on its beach, hut holds a crazy old man. Conversation here kinda gets nowhere so party take their leave.</p><p></p><p>Encounter. Further along beach party walk into the camp of 8 Neanderthals and 4 Dire Wolves, all starving. Party try hailing, wolves attack but people do not. Unwinnable combat and high risk of TPK if party decide to slug it out, but they quickly realized that food was the answer - except for one of the wolves which they had no choice but kill as it just wouldn't stop attacking; it saw one PC in particular as being a better meal than the rations being thrown at it.</p><p></p><p>Some of the party are still stuck here at session's end: Neanderthals are utterly terrified of something back down the beach, don't want the party to go there, and as peacefully as they can won't allow the whole party to leave (though some have escaped). Beach ends just past the Neanderthals' camp. [SPOILER]What's terrified the Neanderthals is the crazy old man in the hut. He hates their wolves and has managed somehow to "train" the people and wolves alike never to come down the beach toward his hut. There's no other way the Neanderthals can go, so they're stuck where they are, trying to eke out subsistence from the lake.</p><p></p><p>How and why all these beings got here is a very long, but internally coherent, story; based around the idea that anyone trying to boat or swim across the lake will meet a two-way somewhat-random planar gate... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> [/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>So is that non-combatty enough for you? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8250717, member: 29398"] Thing is, what's the only common denominator all those games had? You. Are/were you approaching dungeon crawls with a default hack-first mentality perhaps? Like I said upthread, any dunegon can become a hack-a-thon if that's how you and the other players in-character decide to approach it. For a contrary example, I just finished running a session for a 1st-level group. Party is deep in a dungeon. Session consisted of: Spelunking. They'd searched everything except a staircase down from the bottom of a sarcophagus which turns into a shaft leading down to standing water; shaft has a secret door in its side partway down which it took them a while to find. Puzzle-solving. Room outside shaft has a big imposing door with a dozen carvings including a ship, a rainbow, a tree, a dragon, a puppy dog, etc. Party spent a while puzzling over this, then realized they could safely pass the door and carry on. [SPOILER] DM note: the carvings are pure dungeon dressing and have no actual significance. [/SPOILER] Exploration into some empty areas, then a trap, no lasting harm done. (this level is a relatively linear bit of the dungeon, unlike the highly-jacquay-like parts above) Encounter. Party hear sounds and voices behind a door. Instead of charging in they knock on the door and open polite conversation with what they think by its voice is a Hobgoblin (the door remained closed throughout), one of - from the sound if it - several. Party leave on peaceful terms. Encounter. Party find an underground lake with a hut on its beach, hut holds a crazy old man. Conversation here kinda gets nowhere so party take their leave. Encounter. Further along beach party walk into the camp of 8 Neanderthals and 4 Dire Wolves, all starving. Party try hailing, wolves attack but people do not. Unwinnable combat and high risk of TPK if party decide to slug it out, but they quickly realized that food was the answer - except for one of the wolves which they had no choice but kill as it just wouldn't stop attacking; it saw one PC in particular as being a better meal than the rations being thrown at it. Some of the party are still stuck here at session's end: Neanderthals are utterly terrified of something back down the beach, don't want the party to go there, and as peacefully as they can won't allow the whole party to leave (though some have escaped). Beach ends just past the Neanderthals' camp. [SPOILER]What's terrified the Neanderthals is the crazy old man in the hut. He hates their wolves and has managed somehow to "train" the people and wolves alike never to come down the beach toward his hut. There's no other way the Neanderthals can go, so they're stuck where they are, trying to eke out subsistence from the lake. How and why all these beings got here is a very long, but internally coherent, story; based around the idea that anyone trying to boat or swim across the lake will meet a two-way somewhat-random planar gate... :) [/SPOILER] So is that non-combatty enough for you? :) [/QUOTE]
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