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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9330463" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>And they should have been more specific about what they mean by "Crab" or "Lizard" or "Cat" or "Poisonous Snake". Just because they didn't doesn't mean we can't look at the art for the Ape statblock, see a gorilla, and put two and two together.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You won't argue about the distance being 1 mile? Did I hallucinate that bolded text then? You literally did argue that. But yeah, there is no "1 mile limit" on swimming in DnD. You could swim in calm, clear water for <em>napkin mathing</em> looks like around 12 miles without a single hint of a problem </p><p></p><p>Oh? No human on earth could do that because swimming is tiring, exhausting work? Yeah... that's sort of the point I'm making. The rules say, these things are possible even if they are beyond human. </p><p></p><p>But even beyond that, as I stated, the DC 20 is for swimming in the Mississippi River. It isn't for swimming a mile, or half a mile, or 10 ft, it is for swimming in it period. You cannot justify the DC by quoting the distance, then use the DC to show that you can't make the distance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are arguing backwards. I am saying that if untrained, average people can say "yeah, this is fine. I swim in it all the time" then it isn't a DC 20 check. I'm arguing the REAL LIFE PEOPLE who have ACTUALLY DONE IT are indicating that your insanely high DC is inpropriate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Even if I give you difficult terrain (Which I don't think I should) then the professor is lugging 80 lbs, 12 miles, through dense jungle, swamps, mountainous terrain. And, as you helpfully pointed out , that could actually be increased to 150 lbs with no change in speed. </p><p></p><p>And, again, most people recommend 30 lbs for hiking, and through a clear trail without debris or anything other than elevation changes, they say people make about 12 miles per day. So, sure, if you count elevation on a clearly marked, well maintained trail as equivalent to moving through a dense forest thicket, then this untrained professor is only carrying five times the recommended weight while making the hike. If you think a clearly marked and maintained trail with starirs in it, isn't difficult terrain... then they are moving twice as fast.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"If you change the base rules" doesn't really counter my point about what the base rules say.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True, and I consider that a problem. Not just for PCs, but it also means that massive predators per RAW can't actually drag off their prey. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Most of your points are pedantry and aren't even amusing to counter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Honestly, level is convenient, just because it is something we will need to deal with as we make these abilities, and it can be a compromise. The rest is honestly just having to endlessly justify why fantasy heroes don't match 1 to 1 with real life human limitations, and why we don't need to spell out "MAGIC IS REAL" for everything. </p><p></p><p>Heck, I still have to justify why a warforged is held to the same limitations of earth humans, despite it being a well-established fact that robots, cyborgs and golems can achieve far more than humans can in most physical tasks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9330463, member: 6801228"] And they should have been more specific about what they mean by "Crab" or "Lizard" or "Cat" or "Poisonous Snake". Just because they didn't doesn't mean we can't look at the art for the Ape statblock, see a gorilla, and put two and two together. You won't argue about the distance being 1 mile? Did I hallucinate that bolded text then? You literally did argue that. But yeah, there is no "1 mile limit" on swimming in DnD. You could swim in calm, clear water for [I]napkin mathing[/I] looks like around 12 miles without a single hint of a problem Oh? No human on earth could do that because swimming is tiring, exhausting work? Yeah... that's sort of the point I'm making. The rules say, these things are possible even if they are beyond human. But even beyond that, as I stated, the DC 20 is for swimming in the Mississippi River. It isn't for swimming a mile, or half a mile, or 10 ft, it is for swimming in it period. You cannot justify the DC by quoting the distance, then use the DC to show that you can't make the distance. You are arguing backwards. I am saying that if untrained, average people can say "yeah, this is fine. I swim in it all the time" then it isn't a DC 20 check. I'm arguing the REAL LIFE PEOPLE who have ACTUALLY DONE IT are indicating that your insanely high DC is inpropriate. Even if I give you difficult terrain (Which I don't think I should) then the professor is lugging 80 lbs, 12 miles, through dense jungle, swamps, mountainous terrain. And, as you helpfully pointed out , that could actually be increased to 150 lbs with no change in speed. And, again, most people recommend 30 lbs for hiking, and through a clear trail without debris or anything other than elevation changes, they say people make about 12 miles per day. So, sure, if you count elevation on a clearly marked, well maintained trail as equivalent to moving through a dense forest thicket, then this untrained professor is only carrying five times the recommended weight while making the hike. If you think a clearly marked and maintained trail with starirs in it, isn't difficult terrain... then they are moving twice as fast. "If you change the base rules" doesn't really counter my point about what the base rules say. True, and I consider that a problem. Not just for PCs, but it also means that massive predators per RAW can't actually drag off their prey. No. Most of your points are pedantry and aren't even amusing to counter. Honestly, level is convenient, just because it is something we will need to deal with as we make these abilities, and it can be a compromise. The rest is honestly just having to endlessly justify why fantasy heroes don't match 1 to 1 with real life human limitations, and why we don't need to spell out "MAGIC IS REAL" for everything. Heck, I still have to justify why a warforged is held to the same limitations of earth humans, despite it being a well-established fact that robots, cyborgs and golems can achieve far more than humans can in most physical tasks. [/QUOTE]
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