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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9331963" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>IME DMs that ban these kinds of spells have problems getting players to the table. That said even when these spells are available, they are not universally taken.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is not the only thing those classes are good at. The reason fighters in particular are only good at hitting single target enemies is because players CHOOSE to make their PCs only good at that.</p><p></p><p>Most of the people who play fighters that are only good at combart also play fighters with a 14+ in Constitution (usually a 16+). They dump every useful ability in the game, purposely build their character to be good at only single target combat and then complain that they are only good at single target combat. <em> I purposely positioned my ability scores so my fighter is a dumb, irritating clutz and now I can't figure out why no one likes him, why he can't solve and puzzels and he trips over his own shoelaces!</em></p><p></p><p>If you want to be good at other things, play a Fighter with a 10 Constitution and a 16 in Wisdom or Charisma and it is a whole different ballgame and that character is still good at melee.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why shouldn't it be? Are you honestly going to say that asking the victim who killed her should be less effective at finding the murderer than looking around the crime scene for clues? And keep in mind the decision to have Speak with Dead available is a decision with real, tangible cost.</p><p></p><p>There is always the option of just banning magic outright, and the game is still very playable like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are talking about spells, this is not actually true until 11th level and every class can do impossible things by that level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9331963, member: 7030563"] IME DMs that ban these kinds of spells have problems getting players to the table. That said even when these spells are available, they are not universally taken. That is not the only thing those classes are good at. The reason fighters in particular are only good at hitting single target enemies is because players CHOOSE to make their PCs only good at that. Most of the people who play fighters that are only good at combart also play fighters with a 14+ in Constitution (usually a 16+). They dump every useful ability in the game, purposely build their character to be good at only single target combat and then complain that they are only good at single target combat. [I] I purposely positioned my ability scores so my fighter is a dumb, irritating clutz and now I can't figure out why no one likes him, why he can't solve and puzzels and he trips over his own shoelaces![/I] If you want to be good at other things, play a Fighter with a 10 Constitution and a 16 in Wisdom or Charisma and it is a whole different ballgame and that character is still good at melee. Why shouldn't it be? Are you honestly going to say that asking the victim who killed her should be less effective at finding the murderer than looking around the crime scene for clues? And keep in mind the decision to have Speak with Dead available is a decision with real, tangible cost. There is always the option of just banning magic outright, and the game is still very playable like that. If you are talking about spells, this is not actually true until 11th level and every class can do impossible things by that level. [/QUOTE]
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