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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9334082" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>And how many locked doors do you encounter? That's always the trick, isn't it. Plus, knock is a brute force method. Acid Splash to melt the lock, send your familiar to get the keys, disguise self to go and get the keys yourself.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Warlocks can do it with a single cantrip and a single invocation.</p><p></p><p>Rogues use sneak attack instead of extra attack. </p><p></p><p>CLerics and Druids can both end up combining Shillelagh with a spell like booming blade. I had my druid swinging for 3d8+5 causing an additional 3d8 if the enemy moved. Combine that with an area of effect they want to move out of or away from (like flaming sphere), and that is 6d8+5 or 32 damage with an at-will attack. Fightering swinging three times with a d8 weapon is 3d8+21 34.5, I was an average of 2 damage off, and that isn't counting using my bonus action to slam the sphere into the enemy. Which I didn't do often, as I was a Dream Druid and was often healing people with my bonus action instead. I let the warlock blast them away from me to trigger the extra damage. </p><p></p><p>Also, why can't the barbarian just stick with a 16 strength? They get extra attack and rage damage, is it just because of that 11th level boost they don't get?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>THis is kind of rambly. You aren't supporting any of this, just stating it as fact. Why don't fighter's need to improve their strength, but Barbarians need to improve their strength AND get feats? Why are we ignoring sneak attack? Okay, fine, you like low con characters, yet you are insisting that bards need higher to match fighter hp, and are focused on fighting styles and extra attack to be good in combat melee damage. They don't need that though. It is nice, if you want to focus on it, but you can achieve similiar damage with other options.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Studded leather and a good dex gives you 15 AC, that's plenty for a back-liner. And they aren't good between levels 3 and 5? Are you just not aware of Dissonant whispers, Faerie fire, bane, bless, sleep is going out I'll agree, but you are getting hold person, heat metal, phantasmal force.. heck, 5th level gives you Enemies Abound, hypnotic pattern, stinking cloud. I've seen each of these spells end a fight. </p><p></p><p>Sure, the bard isn't going to be directly dealing the highest damage, but if the bard turns the enemy brute against their allies, they have canceled that enemies attacks and increased damage on the opposing side, plus, even if the spell is ended, the enemy might still continue ripping into each other.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Impossibilities shared by every single PC in the game. </p><p></p><p>And yet, if I ask for the fighter to leap tall buildings, or smash stone with his attacks... well, that is impossible and not allowed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is late, I have another sixteen pages of responses from you. But this? This is wrong. This is fundamentally wrong. You WANT casters to be more powerful than everyone else in a team game? No thanks. I came to be a team member, not your caddy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9334082, member: 6801228"] And how many locked doors do you encounter? That's always the trick, isn't it. Plus, knock is a brute force method. Acid Splash to melt the lock, send your familiar to get the keys, disguise self to go and get the keys yourself. Warlocks can do it with a single cantrip and a single invocation. Rogues use sneak attack instead of extra attack. CLerics and Druids can both end up combining Shillelagh with a spell like booming blade. I had my druid swinging for 3d8+5 causing an additional 3d8 if the enemy moved. Combine that with an area of effect they want to move out of or away from (like flaming sphere), and that is 6d8+5 or 32 damage with an at-will attack. Fightering swinging three times with a d8 weapon is 3d8+21 34.5, I was an average of 2 damage off, and that isn't counting using my bonus action to slam the sphere into the enemy. Which I didn't do often, as I was a Dream Druid and was often healing people with my bonus action instead. I let the warlock blast them away from me to trigger the extra damage. Also, why can't the barbarian just stick with a 16 strength? They get extra attack and rage damage, is it just because of that 11th level boost they don't get? THis is kind of rambly. You aren't supporting any of this, just stating it as fact. Why don't fighter's need to improve their strength, but Barbarians need to improve their strength AND get feats? Why are we ignoring sneak attack? Okay, fine, you like low con characters, yet you are insisting that bards need higher to match fighter hp, and are focused on fighting styles and extra attack to be good in combat melee damage. They don't need that though. It is nice, if you want to focus on it, but you can achieve similiar damage with other options. Studded leather and a good dex gives you 15 AC, that's plenty for a back-liner. And they aren't good between levels 3 and 5? Are you just not aware of Dissonant whispers, Faerie fire, bane, bless, sleep is going out I'll agree, but you are getting hold person, heat metal, phantasmal force.. heck, 5th level gives you Enemies Abound, hypnotic pattern, stinking cloud. I've seen each of these spells end a fight. Sure, the bard isn't going to be directly dealing the highest damage, but if the bard turns the enemy brute against their allies, they have canceled that enemies attacks and increased damage on the opposing side, plus, even if the spell is ended, the enemy might still continue ripping into each other. Impossibilities shared by every single PC in the game. And yet, if I ask for the fighter to leap tall buildings, or smash stone with his attacks... well, that is impossible and not allowed. It is late, I have another sixteen pages of responses from you. But this? This is wrong. This is fundamentally wrong. You WANT casters to be more powerful than everyone else in a team game? No thanks. I came to be a team member, not your caddy. [/QUOTE]
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