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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6395121" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>1) here is not entirely true though. 2e had, obviously, no Planescape elements in the beginning until such time as they decided to create an over setting to unite all the settings TSR had published. 3e rejected all Planescape material from Core. All of it was excised from the game. There is not a single mention of the Blood War, or anything even slightly Planescape in nature in the 3e core books. It isn't until the 3e Manual of the Planes that anything Planescape'ish starts to make a come back. With 3.5e, now you have full bore Planescape in the core and in the supplements, but, for a few years anyway, and certainly in core, none of that was the "default".</p><p></p><p>Just took a second and perused my 3e MM2. The only mention that I could find of the Blood War was that demons were at war with good beings, "as well as with the lawful evil devils and baatezu of the Nine Hells." Not exactly a whole lot of information there. The Devils section doesn't even mention relations with Demons. ((On a completely unrelated note, man, there were a LOT of completely forgettable demon and devil types in the MM2. The names read like a random letter generator.))</p><p></p><p>Go back and actually read your 3e Monster Manual. There's nothing related to Planescape at all in there. Neither is anything referenced in the 3e DMG or PHB. Other than some very bare bones points about the Great Wheel, virtually all Planescape material was removed from the game for quite some time.</p><p></p><p>And the funny thing is, back when 3e came out, I remember that being hailed as a good thing. No more over settings intruding on supplements.</p><p></p><p>But, over time, Planescape again reasserted itself as the default as WOTC tried to brand planar stuff. Since they owned all the IP, and since you had umpteen 3rd party publishers publishing all sorts of planar material, they had to do something to set itself apart from the pack. Why not incorporate Planescape. So you got things like mentions of Gwynhyvrr (sp) in the Book of Exhaulted Deeds as a PrC. Dungeon and Dragon became locked into Planescape to the point where, apparently, all planar material had to follow that canon. You couldn't even get published if you didn't bow to the oversetting.</p><p></p><p>2) Um, huh? Eladrin are elves. Says so right there in my 4e PHB. The only difference is now all elves are considered having fey origins. Not a really huge jump there is it? High elves and wood elves have a long history of being separated in the game and a long history of being separate in the genre. But, then again, I've seen how hard people will argue about the importance of a name, so, perhaps you have a point here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6395121, member: 22779"] 1) here is not entirely true though. 2e had, obviously, no Planescape elements in the beginning until such time as they decided to create an over setting to unite all the settings TSR had published. 3e rejected all Planescape material from Core. All of it was excised from the game. There is not a single mention of the Blood War, or anything even slightly Planescape in nature in the 3e core books. It isn't until the 3e Manual of the Planes that anything Planescape'ish starts to make a come back. With 3.5e, now you have full bore Planescape in the core and in the supplements, but, for a few years anyway, and certainly in core, none of that was the "default". Just took a second and perused my 3e MM2. The only mention that I could find of the Blood War was that demons were at war with good beings, "as well as with the lawful evil devils and baatezu of the Nine Hells." Not exactly a whole lot of information there. The Devils section doesn't even mention relations with Demons. ((On a completely unrelated note, man, there were a LOT of completely forgettable demon and devil types in the MM2. The names read like a random letter generator.)) Go back and actually read your 3e Monster Manual. There's nothing related to Planescape at all in there. Neither is anything referenced in the 3e DMG or PHB. Other than some very bare bones points about the Great Wheel, virtually all Planescape material was removed from the game for quite some time. And the funny thing is, back when 3e came out, I remember that being hailed as a good thing. No more over settings intruding on supplements. But, over time, Planescape again reasserted itself as the default as WOTC tried to brand planar stuff. Since they owned all the IP, and since you had umpteen 3rd party publishers publishing all sorts of planar material, they had to do something to set itself apart from the pack. Why not incorporate Planescape. So you got things like mentions of Gwynhyvrr (sp) in the Book of Exhaulted Deeds as a PrC. Dungeon and Dragon became locked into Planescape to the point where, apparently, all planar material had to follow that canon. You couldn't even get published if you didn't bow to the oversetting. 2) Um, huh? Eladrin are elves. Says so right there in my 4e PHB. The only difference is now all elves are considered having fey origins. Not a really huge jump there is it? High elves and wood elves have a long history of being separated in the game and a long history of being separate in the genre. But, then again, I've seen how hard people will argue about the importance of a name, so, perhaps you have a point here. [/QUOTE]
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