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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Nd20 system (Epic-level play rejigged)
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<blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 432489" data-attributes="member: 2486"><p>The main problem is that whilst the dice rolls are going up big-time, the target numbers are remaining constant.</p><p></p><p>The primary beneficiaries are going to be the spellcasters. By adding in that extra d20 for their Spellcraft checks, it effectively reduces the DCs for all of their epic spells by 10.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, since their spell DCs are remaining (roughly) constant from level 20 to level 21, it does mean that the spells which allow a saving throw have their DC reduced by roughly 10 as well. This thrusts the onus very much on no-save type spells, as the saving throws will be made fairly often on the save spells. Put another way, a save which could only be made on a natural 20 before epic level can now be made most of the time.</p><p></p><p>Fighters are also beneficiaries. Their attacks get an effective +10, with ACs remaining roughly constant from level 20 to 21. They can be guaranteed to hit even with their lower iterative attacks, and can almost certainly afford a little Power Attacking and/or Expertise.</p><p></p><p>Rogues and the other skill-based classes get the proverbial shaft. Their skill bonuses which guaranteed them dominance in this area are now hampered severely. Having a skill twenty points higher than someone with d20 guaranteed a victory; with 2d20 it is merely highly probable. On the other hand, set DC skills now become 10 points easier, though I would imagine at epic levels most skill checks would be opposed.</p><p></p><p>Essentially, the crux of the problem is that all 'fixed' target numbers (skill DCs, AC etc.) become much easier. This cannot be solved easily be simply bumping the numbers up by 10 points. Epic tasks can be attempted by non-Epic characters (e.g.s hitting AC 50, making a DC 50 skill check) so the nearly-epic levels will suffer from this blunt fix. Upping the DCs by 10 simultaneously as introducing a further d20 may work, but dents the suspension of disbelief somewhat.</p><p></p><p>It is a problem that needs to be looked at. Closely. Good luck!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Al, post: 432489, member: 2486"] The main problem is that whilst the dice rolls are going up big-time, the target numbers are remaining constant. The primary beneficiaries are going to be the spellcasters. By adding in that extra d20 for their Spellcraft checks, it effectively reduces the DCs for all of their epic spells by 10. On the other hand, since their spell DCs are remaining (roughly) constant from level 20 to level 21, it does mean that the spells which allow a saving throw have their DC reduced by roughly 10 as well. This thrusts the onus very much on no-save type spells, as the saving throws will be made fairly often on the save spells. Put another way, a save which could only be made on a natural 20 before epic level can now be made most of the time. Fighters are also beneficiaries. Their attacks get an effective +10, with ACs remaining roughly constant from level 20 to 21. They can be guaranteed to hit even with their lower iterative attacks, and can almost certainly afford a little Power Attacking and/or Expertise. Rogues and the other skill-based classes get the proverbial shaft. Their skill bonuses which guaranteed them dominance in this area are now hampered severely. Having a skill twenty points higher than someone with d20 guaranteed a victory; with 2d20 it is merely highly probable. On the other hand, set DC skills now become 10 points easier, though I would imagine at epic levels most skill checks would be opposed. Essentially, the crux of the problem is that all 'fixed' target numbers (skill DCs, AC etc.) become much easier. This cannot be solved easily be simply bumping the numbers up by 10 points. Epic tasks can be attempted by non-Epic characters (e.g.s hitting AC 50, making a DC 50 skill check) so the nearly-epic levels will suffer from this blunt fix. Upping the DCs by 10 simultaneously as introducing a further d20 may work, but dents the suspension of disbelief somewhat. It is a problem that needs to be looked at. Closely. Good luck! [/QUOTE]
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