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The New D&D Adventure Storyline Will Be Announced On June 2nd-3rd
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<blockquote data-quote="epithet" data-source="post: 7716128" data-attributes="member: 6796566"><p>I can't speak for Mike, but I'll tell you what makes Greyhawk a more interesting setting to me. Gary Gygax did not approach the setting from the mindset of a fantasy author, or a role-playing game designer. He built it from the perspective of a wargamer, and someone who had studied the history of the real world through the lens of the battles, incursions, generations-spanning wars, revolutions, insurrections, and conquests that shaped it. When he created Oerth, he started with a handful of different human tribes with different gods and different philosophies, then moved them forward through clashes and commingling to create a set of political and cultural subdivisions which seem organic and relatable. Yeah, it is a fantasy world where powerful wizards and demon princes pull the strings, but for all that it still has a certain verisimilitude that the Forgotten Realms lacks. I think that Eberron shares many of those qualities, since Keith Baker put a lot of work into crafting a coherent vision of the long and tortured history that shaped the world before the players got to it, so all the parts fit together. For that matter, even Dark Sun and the Points of Light setting had enough of a backstory to provide context and structure to those settings.</p><p></p><p>The Forgotten Realms, though, is different.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not "almost as if"... Ed Greenwood created the Forgotten Realms as a boy, and hasn't ever stopped adding stuff he thought was cool to it. Big stuff, like gods and world-shattering cataclysms, and stuff gets folded into the setting and then retconned into having been there all along even if it doesn't make any sense. This plasticity is a feature, not a bug--it allows several authors to write FR novels at the same time period that computer RPGs develop, and the characters all cross over and the world is almost destroyed 10 times, but then everything goes back to "normal" and the next story lines are started. That leaves a world so disjointed that it is natural for any and every part of it to be absolutely multiracial, multicultural, totally inclusive and supportive of whatever your fantasy trope happens to be. Pretty much any setting lets you be a ninja, a pirate, a knight, a tribal shaman, or a fairy princess. The Forgotten Realms provides a setting where no-one thinks it's strange of all of those to be in the same adventuring party, sitting at the table in a tavern, tea house, opium den, or flying ship. Sticking an adventure path in the Forgotten Realms is the path of no resistance, it just doesn't make any damn sense... because it doesn't have to.</p><p></p><p>There's no one reason why WotC defaults to the Realms. Part of it is that it's easy, because of the Realms' plasticity. Part of it is that Ed Greenwood is still providing support. Part of it is the cross-marketing of games, books, and related merchandise. But I think part of the reason is also a reverence for the other settings. From the Ashes wasn't well received, and I've heard that the 4e update to Dark Sun was viewed much the same way. While you can't really do anything to hurt the Realms (really, guys? A "Spellplague?" Whatever, reset...) that isn't true of Greyhawk, Eberron, or Athas.</p><p></p><p>I'm all for a book of mechanics that would make it easier to convert new material and update older material for these settings, but I would be very skeptical of a setting book that would update the setting narrative. I think it could definitely be done well, but it wouldn't be easy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="epithet, post: 7716128, member: 6796566"] I can't speak for Mike, but I'll tell you what makes Greyhawk a more interesting setting to me. Gary Gygax did not approach the setting from the mindset of a fantasy author, or a role-playing game designer. He built it from the perspective of a wargamer, and someone who had studied the history of the real world through the lens of the battles, incursions, generations-spanning wars, revolutions, insurrections, and conquests that shaped it. When he created Oerth, he started with a handful of different human tribes with different gods and different philosophies, then moved them forward through clashes and commingling to create a set of political and cultural subdivisions which seem organic and relatable. Yeah, it is a fantasy world where powerful wizards and demon princes pull the strings, but for all that it still has a certain verisimilitude that the Forgotten Realms lacks. I think that Eberron shares many of those qualities, since Keith Baker put a lot of work into crafting a coherent vision of the long and tortured history that shaped the world before the players got to it, so all the parts fit together. For that matter, even Dark Sun and the Points of Light setting had enough of a backstory to provide context and structure to those settings. The Forgotten Realms, though, is different. It's not "almost as if"... Ed Greenwood created the Forgotten Realms as a boy, and hasn't ever stopped adding stuff he thought was cool to it. Big stuff, like gods and world-shattering cataclysms, and stuff gets folded into the setting and then retconned into having been there all along even if it doesn't make any sense. This plasticity is a feature, not a bug--it allows several authors to write FR novels at the same time period that computer RPGs develop, and the characters all cross over and the world is almost destroyed 10 times, but then everything goes back to "normal" and the next story lines are started. That leaves a world so disjointed that it is natural for any and every part of it to be absolutely multiracial, multicultural, totally inclusive and supportive of whatever your fantasy trope happens to be. Pretty much any setting lets you be a ninja, a pirate, a knight, a tribal shaman, or a fairy princess. The Forgotten Realms provides a setting where no-one thinks it's strange of all of those to be in the same adventuring party, sitting at the table in a tavern, tea house, opium den, or flying ship. Sticking an adventure path in the Forgotten Realms is the path of no resistance, it just doesn't make any damn sense... because it doesn't have to. There's no one reason why WotC defaults to the Realms. Part of it is that it's easy, because of the Realms' plasticity. Part of it is that Ed Greenwood is still providing support. Part of it is the cross-marketing of games, books, and related merchandise. But I think part of the reason is also a reverence for the other settings. From the Ashes wasn't well received, and I've heard that the 4e update to Dark Sun was viewed much the same way. While you can't really do anything to hurt the Realms (really, guys? A "Spellplague?" Whatever, reset...) that isn't true of Greyhawk, Eberron, or Athas. I'm all for a book of mechanics that would make it easier to convert new material and update older material for these settings, but I would be very skeptical of a setting book that would update the setting narrative. I think it could definitely be done well, but it wouldn't be easy. [/QUOTE]
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