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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7575101" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p><strong>Levels 11-16 Masters of the Realm</strong></p><p></p><p> All of the classes basically come online around this tier and in general it is fairly balanced as all of them are kind of over powered in various ways. Fighters may be a one trick pony with damage but they're really good at it. YOu start getting less new spell slots and no new freebie spells via Domains or land choices etc but from level 11+ or so you can drop a level 3+ spell every combat maybe even two if you nova or you have 6 encounters. Level 3 damage spells start to taper off and are not generally worth up casting to a higher level slot as an extra dice of damage is generally far less appealing than an extra target. For example a 10d6 fireball is less enticing IMHO than a 4 target hold person. The spell DC system also starts to break down as saves do not scale (except proficient ones) and DC start creeping up around 17+ so save or such. On the martial front the fighter 3rd extra attack and nova abilities of Paladins ramp up the damage so the Hunter Ranger falls a bit further behind in the combat pillar relative to the other warriors who get more rages, attacks, spells to smite with etc. </p><p></p><p><strong>Tier 1</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Bard: Lore</strong> The Lore Bard stays at tier 1 although they get relatively few features. Level 6 and 7 spells are always great and you get more magical secrets which can be used to cherry pick the best spells from other class lists including OP Paladin and Ranger spells before Paladins and rangers actually get to use them. Or you can just mix clerical and wizard spells into the mix. Level 14 pick simulacrum and clone yourself.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Cleric: Life.</strong> Clerics start to taper off a bit in power in general as they don’t really get much in the way of new class features. More spells and higher level spells are always welcome though and upcast spiritual guardians are always useful along with extra healing this cleric offers. The clerc spell list also starts to become a bit lacklustre but you have a few things like Heroes Feast and there are lots of lower level spells clerics have that are worth upcasting- Hold Person, Banishment etc. </p><p></p><p><strong>Cleric: Light.</strong> Most things applicable to thelife cleric also apply to the light cleric. Not that Radiance of the dawn continues to scale and 2d10+11- 2d10+16 is still useful and almost comparable to a fireball but its radiant damage and is based off a short rest ability. And you still have decent domain spells to use with your higher level slots.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Druid: Land</strong> Wildshape gets less useful for a moon druid as you level up. Being able to recall spells and knowing more of them starts to be better than wildshape. You are decent at healing,, ok at blasting and the Druid spell list offers some great optins. Spells and class abilities tend to offer decent exploration pillar options as well along with upcast terrain option spells depending on what terrain you picked. </p><p></p><p><strong>Paladin Oath of the Ancients and Vengeance</strong>. Paladins get more spells, 2 useful abilities+ subclass abilities. They may not get an extra attack but they get an extra dice of radiant damage and an additional dice when they smite. Cleansing touch is a nice bit of utility, while the Oath of the Ancient Paladin gets the Half Orc ability/long rest while the Avenger contuse their focus on smashing a single melee target. Combat, utility, aura, social offers a very competitive package and Paladins are worth keeping around even with spellcasters becoming more powerful. </p><p></p><p><strong>Wizards (all of them) </strong>A few of the subclasses are better than the others but all the wizards are tier 1 now. Best spell list in the game, one of the best ritual casters, and one of their new spells is simulacrum. Even without attack of the clones cheese (a bit early for that yet) it is still another body that can lob cantrips. Depending on ones wealth they are also kind of disposable. Firebolt or Ray of Frost might not be the best cantrips in the world but you can spam two of them every round via simulacrum if you want. On top of more spells, rituals etc. </p><p> </p><p><strong>Tier 2</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Bard: Valor.</strong> No real change, you are still a primary caster that can fight to some extent+ have utility, social game, bard dice, etc. And you get to steal more spells at the same rate as the Lore bard in this tier. Yay. </p><p></p><p><strong>Cleric: Tempest, Nature and War.</strong> No real change here. There clerics are still not as good as the best two and the cleric spell list isn’t as good as say the wizards one and clerics taper off slightly. Miracle gets somewhat more reliable and can be very powerful (if unreliable) depending on how the DM calls it. </p><p>Druid: Moon. Early on you benefit a lot from elemental wileshape which is a decent combat form at level 11 still. By 14+ it is more utility or extra hit points. You can start turning into CR 4 and 5 critters but once again being able to fit might be an issue. </p><p></p><p><strong>Paladin Oath of Devotion.</strong> You’re still a Paladin, the other two continue to be better.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ranger: Hunter.</strong> At level 11 you get to attack everyone you can see via volley oy whirlwind attack. Obviously the archery one is better and it is humorous to see it in action with sharpshooter. You also get evasion or uncanny dodge (I would pick uncanny dodge, better all the time is more reliable than some of the time). All rangers gewt a bit of exploration pillar abilities here as well and you get more spells which also tend to lie in that direction. The Hunter archer continues to be tier 2, hunter melee would be tier 3 IMHO. </p><p> Sorcerer: Dragon/Wild. The Dragon Sorcerer takes a tumble down to tier 2. They can’t match a wizards utility which not only comes via rituals but 5-8 levels of spells being able to be recalled offers things like lots of enhance ability. Wizards tend to be better at combat and exploration while sorcerers are better at social and very good at combat but the versatility and utility gap is growing and the Sorcerers comparative advantages are becoming a bit less relevant while wizards have resources to throw a little bit at the social pillar. </p><p></p><p><strong>Warlock: </strong>Warlocks remain good but they don’t get level 6+ spell slots but they do get mystic Arcanum which is similar enough but their spell list is kind of weak. They do hit 3 spells per short rest which is probably 6-9 level 5 spells. Their invocations and class abilities also offer options and they can be a decent ritual caster. How effective any warlock is on any given day is more down to player skill at building them though since they have less baked in abilities than the other classes.</p><p></p><p><strong>Tier 3</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Barbarian: Path of the Totem Warrior</strong>. No real change in position. You become tougher basically and you get several good options to pick from including Eagle which lets you fly while raging. Useful in combat and out of it. </p><p>Clerics: The rest of them. No real change, mostly due to being outclassed by the other clerics and other classes.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Monk Way of the Open Hand and Shadow.</strong> No change, for much the same reason as the previous tier. Monks are good. </p><p></p><p><strong>Rogues: Arcane Trickster</strong>. Rogues tend to fall off with fairly marginal abilities level 9-15 or so especially when compared with other classes. The arcane trickster gets to hang in there basically because it casts spells and gets more or them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Tier 4</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Barbarian: Path of the Bezerker.</strong> No change from the previous tier for much the same reasons. This class is tier 4 all the way up.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter: All of them.</strong> The good news is fighters are roughly balanced with each other at these levels. The bad news is you’re still a fighter. You become very good at dealing damage and that’s almost it. The Eldritch Knight gets to cast spells but is rated lower than the Arcane Trickster because the Trickster has a lot more out of combat game. Not you can still have a very effective fighter if you really like combat- your great at it and finally become better than the ranger but it’s a toss up with the Paladin IMHO. Ranger of course is better outside combat hence its higher ranking. At level 14/15 the Eldritch Knight could probably be upgraded to tier 3.</p><p></p><p><strong>Rogues (the rest of them)</strong> Rogues peak at about level 8, and it doesn’t get any better really for them at least relative to the other classes. They actually get worse IMHO. Still you’re never bad as such if you stay pure Rogue but you’ll fall behind in damage but are competitive in the other two pillars but you might struggle vs the specialist from other classes. Still average mostly all around is not terrible but you’re tier 4 due to below average combat ability.</p><p></p><p><strong>Tier 5. </strong></p><p></p><p>Long story short. No change for the Beastmaster and Way of the 4 elements Monk.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7575101, member: 6716779"] [B]Levels 11-16 Masters of the Realm[/B] All of the classes basically come online around this tier and in general it is fairly balanced as all of them are kind of over powered in various ways. Fighters may be a one trick pony with damage but they're really good at it. YOu start getting less new spell slots and no new freebie spells via Domains or land choices etc but from level 11+ or so you can drop a level 3+ spell every combat maybe even two if you nova or you have 6 encounters. Level 3 damage spells start to taper off and are not generally worth up casting to a higher level slot as an extra dice of damage is generally far less appealing than an extra target. For example a 10d6 fireball is less enticing IMHO than a 4 target hold person. The spell DC system also starts to break down as saves do not scale (except proficient ones) and DC start creeping up around 17+ so save or such. On the martial front the fighter 3rd extra attack and nova abilities of Paladins ramp up the damage so the Hunter Ranger falls a bit further behind in the combat pillar relative to the other warriors who get more rages, attacks, spells to smite with etc. [B]Tier 1[/B] [B]Bard: Lore[/B] The Lore Bard stays at tier 1 although they get relatively few features. Level 6 and 7 spells are always great and you get more magical secrets which can be used to cherry pick the best spells from other class lists including OP Paladin and Ranger spells before Paladins and rangers actually get to use them. Or you can just mix clerical and wizard spells into the mix. Level 14 pick simulacrum and clone yourself. [B]Cleric: Life.[/B] Clerics start to taper off a bit in power in general as they don’t really get much in the way of new class features. More spells and higher level spells are always welcome though and upcast spiritual guardians are always useful along with extra healing this cleric offers. The clerc spell list also starts to become a bit lacklustre but you have a few things like Heroes Feast and there are lots of lower level spells clerics have that are worth upcasting- Hold Person, Banishment etc. [B]Cleric: Light.[/B] Most things applicable to thelife cleric also apply to the light cleric. Not that Radiance of the dawn continues to scale and 2d10+11- 2d10+16 is still useful and almost comparable to a fireball but its radiant damage and is based off a short rest ability. And you still have decent domain spells to use with your higher level slots. [B]Druid: Land[/B] Wildshape gets less useful for a moon druid as you level up. Being able to recall spells and knowing more of them starts to be better than wildshape. You are decent at healing,, ok at blasting and the Druid spell list offers some great optins. Spells and class abilities tend to offer decent exploration pillar options as well along with upcast terrain option spells depending on what terrain you picked. [B]Paladin Oath of the Ancients and Vengeance[/B]. Paladins get more spells, 2 useful abilities+ subclass abilities. They may not get an extra attack but they get an extra dice of radiant damage and an additional dice when they smite. Cleansing touch is a nice bit of utility, while the Oath of the Ancient Paladin gets the Half Orc ability/long rest while the Avenger contuse their focus on smashing a single melee target. Combat, utility, aura, social offers a very competitive package and Paladins are worth keeping around even with spellcasters becoming more powerful. [B]Wizards (all of them) [/B]A few of the subclasses are better than the others but all the wizards are tier 1 now. Best spell list in the game, one of the best ritual casters, and one of their new spells is simulacrum. Even without attack of the clones cheese (a bit early for that yet) it is still another body that can lob cantrips. Depending on ones wealth they are also kind of disposable. Firebolt or Ray of Frost might not be the best cantrips in the world but you can spam two of them every round via simulacrum if you want. On top of more spells, rituals etc. [B]Tier 2[/B] [B]Bard: Valor.[/B] No real change, you are still a primary caster that can fight to some extent+ have utility, social game, bard dice, etc. And you get to steal more spells at the same rate as the Lore bard in this tier. Yay. [B]Cleric: Tempest, Nature and War.[/B] No real change here. There clerics are still not as good as the best two and the cleric spell list isn’t as good as say the wizards one and clerics taper off slightly. Miracle gets somewhat more reliable and can be very powerful (if unreliable) depending on how the DM calls it. Druid: Moon. Early on you benefit a lot from elemental wileshape which is a decent combat form at level 11 still. By 14+ it is more utility or extra hit points. You can start turning into CR 4 and 5 critters but once again being able to fit might be an issue. [B]Paladin Oath of Devotion.[/B] You’re still a Paladin, the other two continue to be better. [B]Ranger: Hunter.[/B] At level 11 you get to attack everyone you can see via volley oy whirlwind attack. Obviously the archery one is better and it is humorous to see it in action with sharpshooter. You also get evasion or uncanny dodge (I would pick uncanny dodge, better all the time is more reliable than some of the time). All rangers gewt a bit of exploration pillar abilities here as well and you get more spells which also tend to lie in that direction. The Hunter archer continues to be tier 2, hunter melee would be tier 3 IMHO. Sorcerer: Dragon/Wild. The Dragon Sorcerer takes a tumble down to tier 2. They can’t match a wizards utility which not only comes via rituals but 5-8 levels of spells being able to be recalled offers things like lots of enhance ability. Wizards tend to be better at combat and exploration while sorcerers are better at social and very good at combat but the versatility and utility gap is growing and the Sorcerers comparative advantages are becoming a bit less relevant while wizards have resources to throw a little bit at the social pillar. [B]Warlock: [/B]Warlocks remain good but they don’t get level 6+ spell slots but they do get mystic Arcanum which is similar enough but their spell list is kind of weak. They do hit 3 spells per short rest which is probably 6-9 level 5 spells. Their invocations and class abilities also offer options and they can be a decent ritual caster. How effective any warlock is on any given day is more down to player skill at building them though since they have less baked in abilities than the other classes. [B]Tier 3[/B] [B] Barbarian: Path of the Totem Warrior[/B]. No real change in position. You become tougher basically and you get several good options to pick from including Eagle which lets you fly while raging. Useful in combat and out of it. Clerics: The rest of them. No real change, mostly due to being outclassed by the other clerics and other classes. [B]Monk Way of the Open Hand and Shadow.[/B] No change, for much the same reason as the previous tier. Monks are good. [B]Rogues: Arcane Trickster[/B]. Rogues tend to fall off with fairly marginal abilities level 9-15 or so especially when compared with other classes. The arcane trickster gets to hang in there basically because it casts spells and gets more or them. [B]Tier 4[/B] [B]Barbarian: Path of the Bezerker.[/B] No change from the previous tier for much the same reasons. This class is tier 4 all the way up. [B]Fighter: All of them.[/B] The good news is fighters are roughly balanced with each other at these levels. The bad news is you’re still a fighter. You become very good at dealing damage and that’s almost it. The Eldritch Knight gets to cast spells but is rated lower than the Arcane Trickster because the Trickster has a lot more out of combat game. Not you can still have a very effective fighter if you really like combat- your great at it and finally become better than the ranger but it’s a toss up with the Paladin IMHO. Ranger of course is better outside combat hence its higher ranking. At level 14/15 the Eldritch Knight could probably be upgraded to tier 3. [B]Rogues (the rest of them)[/B] Rogues peak at about level 8, and it doesn’t get any better really for them at least relative to the other classes. They actually get worse IMHO. Still you’re never bad as such if you stay pure Rogue but you’ll fall behind in damage but are competitive in the other two pillars but you might struggle vs the specialist from other classes. Still average mostly all around is not terrible but you’re tier 4 due to below average combat ability. [B]Tier 5. [/B] Long story short. No change for the Beastmaster and Way of the 4 elements Monk. [/QUOTE]
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