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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5859910" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>See, I kind of agree with Incenjucar, more and more detailed rules for how to search, how to use a boat, how to charm a princess, etc rapidly becomes both unwieldy and turns into a straightjacket. You could have 100's, if not 1000's of these detailed mini-games, and still not cover all the things people regularly do in D&D games. Chances are any given addition or option to the rules will also have unforeseen knock-on effects in at least some subset of them. It rapidly becomes harder and harder to maintain that.</p><p></p><p>Worse, IMHO, is the way it channels the game into resolving things in certain ways. Each mini-game brings in more and more assumptions about how the world works in a given game, the level of detail that a specific type of activity warrants, the kinds of results to expect, etc. Such a system is great if it happens to meet with the needs and expectations of a given group in a given situation, but if not then it is just an impediment. It can create player expectations that may be violated, tends to inhibit DM creativity, and just takes up space in the books with material that as it is more and more niche is less and less likely to be useful to a given DM.</p><p></p><p>I feel that the best approach really was the 4e approach. Give the DM a very strong base rules platform with a highly generalized resolution mechanic that can be tied into consistently in any given situation, and a basic framework system for dealing with more complex conflicts. The rules themselves stay short and sweet, but the game can apply them to anything. To a certain extent this is really a 3.x innovation, moving a lot of stuff onto a list with consistent mechanics for instance. 4e just streamlined it and got rid of a lot of rather dubious subsystems like crafting that didn't add any real value and often produced absurd and inappropriate results because the guy writing the crafting rules knows zip about crafting much of anything and has no idea how the game he's writing that subsystem for will actually be run. </p><p></p><p>I'd MUCH rather see sections that talk about how you might approach something like crafting. Talk about what sorts of characters might want to do it, various ways they can accomplish these things, and different resolution mechanics that can be used in different situations. So we might see that "making a living" can simply be cast as a simple skill challenge to see if the character makes enough to get by, with maybe an option for if they succeed really well that the DM might give them a treasure parcel or something and how this activity can generate plot hooks. It can then talk about how PCs might use crafting to solve problems and what sorts of conflicts that might relate to and what to do. You can then talk about how in some situations there IS no conflict and there need not be dice tossed to resolve anything, and in another situation using a skill like that can be applied like any secondary skill in an SC to enhance the chances of success, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5859910, member: 82106"] See, I kind of agree with Incenjucar, more and more detailed rules for how to search, how to use a boat, how to charm a princess, etc rapidly becomes both unwieldy and turns into a straightjacket. You could have 100's, if not 1000's of these detailed mini-games, and still not cover all the things people regularly do in D&D games. Chances are any given addition or option to the rules will also have unforeseen knock-on effects in at least some subset of them. It rapidly becomes harder and harder to maintain that. Worse, IMHO, is the way it channels the game into resolving things in certain ways. Each mini-game brings in more and more assumptions about how the world works in a given game, the level of detail that a specific type of activity warrants, the kinds of results to expect, etc. Such a system is great if it happens to meet with the needs and expectations of a given group in a given situation, but if not then it is just an impediment. It can create player expectations that may be violated, tends to inhibit DM creativity, and just takes up space in the books with material that as it is more and more niche is less and less likely to be useful to a given DM. I feel that the best approach really was the 4e approach. Give the DM a very strong base rules platform with a highly generalized resolution mechanic that can be tied into consistently in any given situation, and a basic framework system for dealing with more complex conflicts. The rules themselves stay short and sweet, but the game can apply them to anything. To a certain extent this is really a 3.x innovation, moving a lot of stuff onto a list with consistent mechanics for instance. 4e just streamlined it and got rid of a lot of rather dubious subsystems like crafting that didn't add any real value and often produced absurd and inappropriate results because the guy writing the crafting rules knows zip about crafting much of anything and has no idea how the game he's writing that subsystem for will actually be run. I'd MUCH rather see sections that talk about how you might approach something like crafting. Talk about what sorts of characters might want to do it, various ways they can accomplish these things, and different resolution mechanics that can be used in different situations. So we might see that "making a living" can simply be cast as a simple skill challenge to see if the character makes enough to get by, with maybe an option for if they succeed really well that the DM might give them a treasure parcel or something and how this activity can generate plot hooks. It can then talk about how PCs might use crafting to solve problems and what sorts of conflicts that might relate to and what to do. You can then talk about how in some situations there IS no conflict and there need not be dice tossed to resolve anything, and in another situation using a skill like that can be applied like any secondary skill in an SC to enhance the chances of success, etc. [/QUOTE]
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