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<blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 4736530" data-attributes="member: 20239"><p>I think this is where my disconnect with the OSR must spring from. Other than a few, very rare, people I've encountered only through the internet, I've never encountered a player of any edition of D&D (or any other RPG for that matter) who thought that players using deductive reasoning or creative thinking to find solutions to in-game challenges didn't have a normal and accepted place at the game table. I don't know if this is just a major difference in experiences, a gut reaction to the fact that newer games tend to have more defined skill systems or some kind of strawman being used to support a non-existent "edition gulf", but the idea that problem solving and lateral thinking aren't integral parts of playing a modern RPG is just completely alien to my gaming experiences.</p><p></p><p>I do agree that, in the absence of rules for a particular situation which we might be more likely to encounter playing an earlier edition of D&D, the main method of task resolution is for the player and DM to "talk it out". But in my experience, this is much more likely to take the form of running down a boring checklist...</p><p></p><p>Player: I check under the mattress for treasure.</p><p>DM: No treasure.</p><p>Player: I check under the bed for treasure.</p><p>DM: No treasure.</p><p>Player: I cut open the mattress to look for treasure.</p><p>DM: No treasure.</p><p>Player: I hack the bedframe to splinters to look for treasure.</p><p>DM: You find a 50gp gem in a hollow space drilled into the left, bottom leg of the bed.</p><p></p><p>... than actual problem solving or creativity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ourph, post: 4736530, member: 20239"] I think this is where my disconnect with the OSR must spring from. Other than a few, very rare, people I've encountered only through the internet, I've never encountered a player of any edition of D&D (or any other RPG for that matter) who thought that players using deductive reasoning or creative thinking to find solutions to in-game challenges didn't have a normal and accepted place at the game table. I don't know if this is just a major difference in experiences, a gut reaction to the fact that newer games tend to have more defined skill systems or some kind of strawman being used to support a non-existent "edition gulf", but the idea that problem solving and lateral thinking aren't integral parts of playing a modern RPG is just completely alien to my gaming experiences. I do agree that, in the absence of rules for a particular situation which we might be more likely to encounter playing an earlier edition of D&D, the main method of task resolution is for the player and DM to "talk it out". But in my experience, this is much more likely to take the form of running down a boring checklist... Player: I check under the mattress for treasure. DM: No treasure. Player: I check under the bed for treasure. DM: No treasure. Player: I cut open the mattress to look for treasure. DM: No treasure. Player: I hack the bedframe to splinters to look for treasure. DM: You find a 50gp gem in a hollow space drilled into the left, bottom leg of the bed. ... than actual problem solving or creativity. [/QUOTE]
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