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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
'The Paladin as King': Cutting Through the Hype
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6758058" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>RE: #1, probably not, since all of the storm sorcerer's worthwhile abilities trigger off spellcasting, which means they're automatically expensive. At least Bend Luck can be saved for only when it is going to make a difference--it's like giving everyone in your party +4-6 to their prime casting stat, since penalizing an enemy's roll by 2.5 points is equivalent to increasing your own DC by 2.5 points. Just use Bend Luck (costs your reaction) whenever it looks like an enemy is going to make his save by (what you estimate to be) 3 points or less, and it makes it as if your ally had +3 to spell DC all along. I don't see anything a Storm Sorcerer has that can compete with that. Can also be used in an emergency to penalize enemy initiative, attack rolls (on people other than self, otherwise just Shield instead), or athletics checks. Storm Sorcerer can fly 10' when he casts a spell, but Claudius can already carry me around for free and the flight doesn't even work with Shield (usually) which is the spell I'd be casting most often in melee... no thanks, I'd rather be Wild.</p><p></p><p>RE: standard point buy, well, here's the thing. One reason I don't use standard point buy is that there's a tension between what is clearly optimal (dump Int, dump either Str or Dex, probably dump Cha) and what I can stand to play as an actual character. In particular, I can't bring myself to play a character with an Int under 10 or 11. But mechanically, the build would work perfectly fine with standard point buy as a human with Str 15, Con 16, Cha 16, rest 8s, with Warcaster. You still wind up with the same feats in the long term, the only difference is worse Dex and Wis saves and +2 instead of +3 to attacks. (But who cares? You have advantage on many attacks anyway from Mounted Combatant or Darkness/Devil's Sight or Tides of Chaos, and when you need to Sacred Weapon will give you another +5 with no concentration cost. Having +2 to damage instead of +3 doesn't change much when you're relying on False Fetters or Eldritch Blast. In fact, one of my original motivations for considering Paladin/Sorc was specifically to remove the need to boost Strength in order to attack.)</p><p></p><p>In short, standard point buy would make the character unplayable for me on a roleplaying level (Cranduin just isn't the same as a short-tempered clumsy dimwit with Int 8/Wis 8/Dex 8) but it doesn't affect the build's viability at all, really. In fact, the build is mostly SAD on Cha. You could drop Con to 14 or even 12 without seriously altering the way it plays; decreasing Str would be notable mostly for how much it damages your mobility when you're not mounted. Str 10 Con 10 Cha 16 would still be doable, especially if you could get someone to Longstrider you in unmounted scenarios.</p><p></p><p>When I roll poorly ( <table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>11</td><td>7</td><td>8</td><td>11</td><td>12</td><td>10</td></tr></table><p>) I make a Sorlock, Rogue, or a Moon Druid. That array right there looks like Alec Guiness's Obi Wan Kenobi: Str 7, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 11. Old but not out of it. (Decent but not great Wisdom because like Yoda he gives really poor relationship advice. "<span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Bury your feelings deep down, Luke." Uh, no. Bad idea.</span></span>) Give him Mobile and you're ready to go. At 4th level take Resilient (Con) and at 8th take Lucky, then use your other ASIs to boost Wisdom to 18 by 20th level. Voila! Viable character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6758058, member: 6787650"] RE: #1, probably not, since all of the storm sorcerer's worthwhile abilities trigger off spellcasting, which means they're automatically expensive. At least Bend Luck can be saved for only when it is going to make a difference--it's like giving everyone in your party +4-6 to their prime casting stat, since penalizing an enemy's roll by 2.5 points is equivalent to increasing your own DC by 2.5 points. Just use Bend Luck (costs your reaction) whenever it looks like an enemy is going to make his save by (what you estimate to be) 3 points or less, and it makes it as if your ally had +3 to spell DC all along. I don't see anything a Storm Sorcerer has that can compete with that. Can also be used in an emergency to penalize enemy initiative, attack rolls (on people other than self, otherwise just Shield instead), or athletics checks. Storm Sorcerer can fly 10' when he casts a spell, but Claudius can already carry me around for free and the flight doesn't even work with Shield (usually) which is the spell I'd be casting most often in melee... no thanks, I'd rather be Wild. RE: standard point buy, well, here's the thing. One reason I don't use standard point buy is that there's a tension between what is clearly optimal (dump Int, dump either Str or Dex, probably dump Cha) and what I can stand to play as an actual character. In particular, I can't bring myself to play a character with an Int under 10 or 11. But mechanically, the build would work perfectly fine with standard point buy as a human with Str 15, Con 16, Cha 16, rest 8s, with Warcaster. You still wind up with the same feats in the long term, the only difference is worse Dex and Wis saves and +2 instead of +3 to attacks. (But who cares? You have advantage on many attacks anyway from Mounted Combatant or Darkness/Devil's Sight or Tides of Chaos, and when you need to Sacred Weapon will give you another +5 with no concentration cost. Having +2 to damage instead of +3 doesn't change much when you're relying on False Fetters or Eldritch Blast. In fact, one of my original motivations for considering Paladin/Sorc was specifically to remove the need to boost Strength in order to attack.) In short, standard point buy would make the character unplayable for me on a roleplaying level (Cranduin just isn't the same as a short-tempered clumsy dimwit with Int 8/Wis 8/Dex 8) but it doesn't affect the build's viability at all, really. In fact, the build is mostly SAD on Cha. You could drop Con to 14 or even 12 without seriously altering the way it plays; decreasing Str would be notable mostly for how much it damages your mobility when you're not mounted. Str 10 Con 10 Cha 16 would still be doable, especially if you could get someone to Longstrider you in unmounted scenarios. When I roll poorly ([TABLE="class: resultTable"][TR][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]11[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]7[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]8[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]11[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]12[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #D2CCBA, align: center"]10[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]) I make a Sorlock, Rogue, or a Moon Druid. That array right there looks like Alec Guiness's Obi Wan Kenobi: Str 7, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 11. Old but not out of it. (Decent but not great Wisdom because like Yoda he gives really poor relationship advice. "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Bury your feelings deep down, Luke." Uh, no. Bad idea.[/FONT][/COLOR]) Give him Mobile and you're ready to go. At 4th level take Resilient (Con) and at 8th take Lucky, then use your other ASIs to boost Wisdom to 18 by 20th level. Voila! Viable character. [/QUOTE]
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