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The Player vs DM attitude
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<blockquote data-quote="Negflar2099" data-source="post: 5201678" data-attributes="member: 65944"><p>How do we stop it?</p><p></p><p>I'm writing this because I saw two posts today that seem to be related, even if they aren't linked. One asks how many DMs out there are Rat Basterds and the other asks if the PCs were surrounded by an overwhelming force would they surrender?</p><p></p><p>In my opinion the answer to one probably determines the answer to the other. I've seen too many DMs, heard too many stories, played in too many games, where the DM thinks the only way to "win" is either A) kill all the players or B) mess with their minds like only a true rat basterd would. </p><p></p><p>Players in turn, having suffered in these games themselves, or having been schooled by those who have suffered, develop the counter attitude. Winning, (ie not letting your character die, be tricked, kidnapped or failing to complete the objective (whatever it happens to be)) is the only way to play. Anything else is letting the DM win. </p><p></p><p>These players develop a deep seated paranoia that compels them to never trust a single NPC (especially a father figure or kind old lady or someone the DM clearly wants them to trust), never let their characters be kidnapped or arrested (as in the above example), and basically have their characters act like insane sociopaths who torture, loot and behave totally inconsistently from one session to the next (or even one moment to the next in the same session). Otherwise they run the risk of again letting the DM win. </p><p></p><p>Obviously I don't like this attitude. I don't enjoy it in my games. It all but ruins things for me and I don't know what to do. I've tried talking to my players (repeatedly) but like paranoid conspiracy theorists the more I assure them I am not out to get them in the rat basterd way the more convinced they become that I am just setting them up for a huge fall. </p><p></p><p>Now the sad part is in movies, books even videogames, betrayal and loss are important to amping the stakes in a story but because of their paranoia I could never include such things in my game. If I do then all my talk of being a nice DM goes out the window. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>What can I do to combat that attitude both among my players and when I play in games DMed by other people? And does anyone else see it as the same problem I do or is this just my hangup? What do you think?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Negflar2099, post: 5201678, member: 65944"] How do we stop it? I'm writing this because I saw two posts today that seem to be related, even if they aren't linked. One asks how many DMs out there are Rat Basterds and the other asks if the PCs were surrounded by an overwhelming force would they surrender? In my opinion the answer to one probably determines the answer to the other. I've seen too many DMs, heard too many stories, played in too many games, where the DM thinks the only way to "win" is either A) kill all the players or B) mess with their minds like only a true rat basterd would. Players in turn, having suffered in these games themselves, or having been schooled by those who have suffered, develop the counter attitude. Winning, (ie not letting your character die, be tricked, kidnapped or failing to complete the objective (whatever it happens to be)) is the only way to play. Anything else is letting the DM win. These players develop a deep seated paranoia that compels them to never trust a single NPC (especially a father figure or kind old lady or someone the DM clearly wants them to trust), never let their characters be kidnapped or arrested (as in the above example), and basically have their characters act like insane sociopaths who torture, loot and behave totally inconsistently from one session to the next (or even one moment to the next in the same session). Otherwise they run the risk of again letting the DM win. Obviously I don't like this attitude. I don't enjoy it in my games. It all but ruins things for me and I don't know what to do. I've tried talking to my players (repeatedly) but like paranoid conspiracy theorists the more I assure them I am not out to get them in the rat basterd way the more convinced they become that I am just setting them up for a huge fall. Now the sad part is in movies, books even videogames, betrayal and loss are important to amping the stakes in a story but because of their paranoia I could never include such things in my game. If I do then all my talk of being a nice DM goes out the window. :( What can I do to combat that attitude both among my players and when I play in games DMed by other people? And does anyone else see it as the same problem I do or is this just my hangup? What do you think? [/QUOTE]
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