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<blockquote data-quote="phindar" data-source="post: 3392925" data-attributes="member: 37198"><p>No, what I said was:</p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't ask about physical attractiveness linking to CHA because I looked it up in the book, saw that it was, and said, "that is absolutely horrible." And decided to attack that specific point because... well... no good reason really. Just on the grounds of being horribly ill-considered game design. Its possible you are confusing me with another poster, and if so, no harm no foul. </p><p></p><p>Linking beauty to a stat is as close to an indefensible argument as I can imagine. Here are the only two things I can think of that make any sense:</p><p></p><p>1) Beauty has to link to something, CHA is the most applicable thing. (This I think is simple false, there's really no reason a character can't look like anything you want. Its fluff.) </p><p></p><p>2) If beauty links to CHA, then the mary sue players that insist npcs swoon over their tweaked out combat gods can't use CHA as a dump stat. (This, honestly, I am not unsympathetic to. If your group consists of mary sue players that insist npcs swoon over their tweaked out combat gods, you have to do everything in your power to stop them. Make beauty inversely proportionate to attack bonus, do whatever you have to do.)</p><p></p><p>I have two real world examples I'll trot out. Hitler. Not an attractive man. And yet, he somehow got an entire country to buy into a scheme slightly less well thought out than the local Amway concern. (In fact, all the world leaders circa WWII were dogs. Churchill looked like a cigar someone had half stubbed out. All the current world leaders are dogs too, except for Vladimir Putin. I admit I sometimes get lost in the ocean that is his eyes.) </p><p></p><p>The second example requires a leap of imagination. Let's say you had total amnesia, the kind you find in bad romance novels, and you remember nothing from the past 4 years. I show you a picture of Paris Hilton. You'd probably think, "Well, she's kind of skinny, and the nose is a little weird, but she seems like a sweet person." Then, you watch any five minutes of any season of the Surreal Life. I confound you sir, to say that beauty and CHA are linked. (You could of course say you don't find Paris Hilton attractive, which I will accept. Put that only proves my next point.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Whether or not you are attractive is a subjective decision on the part of the viewer.</strong> CHA is a stat, it does something, it is a part of who you are. Let's say my character was a beautiful, beautiful Sorcerer with a 22 CHA, and because of poor decision making, he gets his face cut off. His cheeks, his lips, his nose; amputated. Until Regeneration is cast, he is a vaguely human-looking, skull-visaged monstrosity; a bloody snot-bubble blowing, terrifyingly hideous <em>thing</em>. His CHA? Still 22. Unaffected. Because when you actually think about it, it makes no sense to link appearance to Charisma. </p><p></p><p>Beauty is only skin deep. Beauty... is in the eye of the beholder. </p><p></p><p>Also, Kae, never doubt that a small number of snarky comments can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="phindar, post: 3392925, member: 37198"] No, what I said was: I didn't ask about physical attractiveness linking to CHA because I looked it up in the book, saw that it was, and said, "that is absolutely horrible." And decided to attack that specific point because... well... no good reason really. Just on the grounds of being horribly ill-considered game design. Its possible you are confusing me with another poster, and if so, no harm no foul. Linking beauty to a stat is as close to an indefensible argument as I can imagine. Here are the only two things I can think of that make any sense: 1) Beauty has to link to something, CHA is the most applicable thing. (This I think is simple false, there's really no reason a character can't look like anything you want. Its fluff.) 2) If beauty links to CHA, then the mary sue players that insist npcs swoon over their tweaked out combat gods can't use CHA as a dump stat. (This, honestly, I am not unsympathetic to. If your group consists of mary sue players that insist npcs swoon over their tweaked out combat gods, you have to do everything in your power to stop them. Make beauty inversely proportionate to attack bonus, do whatever you have to do.) I have two real world examples I'll trot out. Hitler. Not an attractive man. And yet, he somehow got an entire country to buy into a scheme slightly less well thought out than the local Amway concern. (In fact, all the world leaders circa WWII were dogs. Churchill looked like a cigar someone had half stubbed out. All the current world leaders are dogs too, except for Vladimir Putin. I admit I sometimes get lost in the ocean that is his eyes.) The second example requires a leap of imagination. Let's say you had total amnesia, the kind you find in bad romance novels, and you remember nothing from the past 4 years. I show you a picture of Paris Hilton. You'd probably think, "Well, she's kind of skinny, and the nose is a little weird, but she seems like a sweet person." Then, you watch any five minutes of any season of the Surreal Life. I confound you sir, to say that beauty and CHA are linked. (You could of course say you don't find Paris Hilton attractive, which I will accept. Put that only proves my next point.) [b]Whether or not you are attractive is a subjective decision on the part of the viewer.[/b] CHA is a stat, it does something, it is a part of who you are. Let's say my character was a beautiful, beautiful Sorcerer with a 22 CHA, and because of poor decision making, he gets his face cut off. His cheeks, his lips, his nose; amputated. Until Regeneration is cast, he is a vaguely human-looking, skull-visaged monstrosity; a bloody snot-bubble blowing, terrifyingly hideous [i]thing[/i]. His CHA? Still 22. Unaffected. Because when you actually think about it, it makes no sense to link appearance to Charisma. Beauty is only skin deep. Beauty... is in the eye of the beholder. Also, Kae, never doubt that a small number of snarky comments can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. [/QUOTE]
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