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The "Powergamers (Min/maxer)" vs "Alpha Gamers" vs "Role Play Gamers" vs "GM" balance mismatch "problem(s)"
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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7279647" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>So I posted this and went to sleep then woke up to this... I laughed, scratched my head at a few posts, read a few posts that I couldn't catch on one read, read some posts that said pretty much what I said they would say in the post and I am guessing they didn't read the it all (in their defense it was long winded, err... if you have my seen my posts in the past I do get that way trying to be clear so people often don't read the whole thing and miss my point...I have a problem), and I laughed some more.</p><p></p><p>A few points of reply:</p><p></p><p>1. The post is in no way intended to "justify power gaming", the biggest point is as many people said... is that your character build style doesn't really matter all that much and people blaming power gamers is misguided. If you have a problem with a player is not because they are a power gamer or a role player it is because they are acting like a jerk or you are acting like a jerk. As a number of people said. --- All those post of people saying that were actually agreeing with me a number of them seemed to thing they were refuting me. (long posts they likely didn't read it all, partly on me.)</p><p></p><p>2. I said GM are ALWAYS control TPK and that some people would say they don't its on the players when they make bad decisions because the possibility of player character death builds fun. They did. I then went on to say, that a GM makes decisions to make life or death encounters and to go with the role and provides the players the information to make those choices, so <strong>IT IS </strong>on the GM. I also said, that player death is not always bad, one or to players die as a result of ignoring warning signs and not taking the way out sure. My primary point in that topic was not about tension or telling people how to play their group. I am just suggesting that if the GM lets the kills a players character because the had ways out but decided to stand in a room full of poison gas, <strong>the GM still kills a player character</strong> but not because the character build or balance but because he felt it was a reasonable out come to player role playing choices. <strong>So again, I stand by not blaming character min/max builds, sub-optimal builds, or balance in general for player death or TPK. It is a result of the GM allowing consequences for character role playing decisions. That does mean the GM killed the player but that doesn't mean it was wrong to do so. Its just part of the GMs job which needs to be done in a reasonable way. </strong></p><p></p><p>3.</p><p></p><p></p><p> [MENTION=88539]LowKey[/MENTION]</p><p></p><p>Wit due respect, I like a lot of your posts and topics and humor... That said, I did not "write that much" to justifying my choices, their are no choices here. I am talking about the perspective of the community in regards blaming players character builds for breaking balance and causing TPK. Its interesting that all your posts are 100% agreement with my intent but some how manage to degrade me by calling the post a pointless "debate" and that something is very wrong (with what? me?) to bring this topic up. Oddly enough you had quite a bit to say on a thread you found pointless, so it was at least a point people where interested in disusing. I did find several of your comments humorous as intended. I do write a lot, but its not a mater of over justification, it a mater of my writing style and my desire to be as clear as possible which result in me being so long winded people don't read it all and make snap and random decisions on my post based off what they think I was going to say and not what I actually said.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7279647, member: 6880599"] So I posted this and went to sleep then woke up to this... I laughed, scratched my head at a few posts, read a few posts that I couldn't catch on one read, read some posts that said pretty much what I said they would say in the post and I am guessing they didn't read the it all (in their defense it was long winded, err... if you have my seen my posts in the past I do get that way trying to be clear so people often don't read the whole thing and miss my point...I have a problem), and I laughed some more. A few points of reply: 1. The post is in no way intended to "justify power gaming", the biggest point is as many people said... is that your character build style doesn't really matter all that much and people blaming power gamers is misguided. If you have a problem with a player is not because they are a power gamer or a role player it is because they are acting like a jerk or you are acting like a jerk. As a number of people said. --- All those post of people saying that were actually agreeing with me a number of them seemed to thing they were refuting me. (long posts they likely didn't read it all, partly on me.) 2. I said GM are ALWAYS control TPK and that some people would say they don't its on the players when they make bad decisions because the possibility of player character death builds fun. They did. I then went on to say, that a GM makes decisions to make life or death encounters and to go with the role and provides the players the information to make those choices, so [B]IT IS [/B]on the GM. I also said, that player death is not always bad, one or to players die as a result of ignoring warning signs and not taking the way out sure. My primary point in that topic was not about tension or telling people how to play their group. I am just suggesting that if the GM lets the kills a players character because the had ways out but decided to stand in a room full of poison gas, [B]the GM still kills a player character[/B] but not because the character build or balance but because he felt it was a reasonable out come to player role playing choices. [B]So again, I stand by not blaming character min/max builds, sub-optimal builds, or balance in general for player death or TPK. It is a result of the GM allowing consequences for character role playing decisions. That does mean the GM killed the player but that doesn't mean it was wrong to do so. Its just part of the GMs job which needs to be done in a reasonable way. [/B] 3. [MENTION=88539]LowKey[/MENTION] Wit due respect, I like a lot of your posts and topics and humor... That said, I did not "write that much" to justifying my choices, their are no choices here. I am talking about the perspective of the community in regards blaming players character builds for breaking balance and causing TPK. Its interesting that all your posts are 100% agreement with my intent but some how manage to degrade me by calling the post a pointless "debate" and that something is very wrong (with what? me?) to bring this topic up. Oddly enough you had quite a bit to say on a thread you found pointless, so it was at least a point people where interested in disusing. I did find several of your comments humorous as intended. I do write a lot, but its not a mater of over justification, it a mater of my writing style and my desire to be as clear as possible which result in me being so long winded people don't read it all and make snap and random decisions on my post based off what they think I was going to say and not what I actually said. [/QUOTE]
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