Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The "Powergamers (Min/maxer)" vs "Alpha Gamers" vs "Role Play Gamers" vs "GM" balance mismatch "problem(s)"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7284015" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>We didn't TPK and I am not bitter about the example I used were we did not TPK. ... The example was to illustrate that we would have but the GM realised that we did not know it was the end. The GM did not provide or allow any checks for that because he had placed them in rooms he had expected us to enter so that we could research it and find our way. We roll a natural 20 allowing on a random search of for clues to investigate and the only thing in the room was a secret "escape path" he had put there as a quick exit after the bosses. He did not expect is to search there since the room was left pretty bare but felt obligated to let us find the door since we had an investigation threshold way higher than he would have put. This was not the only unintended "short cut" we took but all were a similar seemingly random event that was at a whim but caused us to bypass pretty much the entire story he had created other than the reason we were going there, which was kind of an investigation mission... with all the clues leading to a secret room with the bosses. Which we accidentally found without the clues while looking for the clues.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was not clever of us just random whims leading the group in an unsuspected direction and we had no idea of what we were about to fight. We where there to search for clues and we did... we just found the answer first. So he made the fight possible because while player agency lead us to the room, we had no agency on the fight because it was intended by the GM that we follow pretty much any other path. No we could not assume that we could win all fights, in fact we had a fight a few rooms just inside the place and a while prior to that room where we could have and almost did wipe that was not so dramatically above our abilities. We we given no support for that fight because we were aware of it before hand and with a timer were forced to make a choice to run or fight because they were actually patrolling the area we were in. We quickly decided to fight and setup an ambush that started very well ... then went very bad very fast. The last fight was intended to be a boss fight trap of sort where we found the clues and willingly lock ourselves in a room with enemies and see who comes out with that in mind they were intended for us to fight in a deadly battle at level 8 where some of us might not make it. Walking in as we did we were trapped with a room of horrors, no way, out no idea what just happened, and no possible way to win. To give you and idea, we walked through a door and got locked in with a jabba the hut style turning wall to face a full vampire (not a spawn), a werewolf, a mindflare, and something else monstrous I can't remember. Though I can't remember our level exactly just that their were 3 of us and way to low for the fight. Even dumbed down we lost a PC, our made was killed and that player rolled a paladin as a replacement. We were all cool with the fight and the out come. I am pretty sure the "walk around the corner and TPK" scenario he told use he saved us from would not have gone over so well just because as I said we had no foreshadowing to be setup for slaughter. Giving players a fight they need to run from or telling them there is an enemy in this castle than can kill you all is one thing. Telling them to search for clues, they turn a few corners and die a horrible death all at once is different.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7284015, member: 6880599"] We didn't TPK and I am not bitter about the example I used were we did not TPK. ... The example was to illustrate that we would have but the GM realised that we did not know it was the end. The GM did not provide or allow any checks for that because he had placed them in rooms he had expected us to enter so that we could research it and find our way. We roll a natural 20 allowing on a random search of for clues to investigate and the only thing in the room was a secret "escape path" he had put there as a quick exit after the bosses. He did not expect is to search there since the room was left pretty bare but felt obligated to let us find the door since we had an investigation threshold way higher than he would have put. This was not the only unintended "short cut" we took but all were a similar seemingly random event that was at a whim but caused us to bypass pretty much the entire story he had created other than the reason we were going there, which was kind of an investigation mission... with all the clues leading to a secret room with the bosses. Which we accidentally found without the clues while looking for the clues. It was not clever of us just random whims leading the group in an unsuspected direction and we had no idea of what we were about to fight. We where there to search for clues and we did... we just found the answer first. So he made the fight possible because while player agency lead us to the room, we had no agency on the fight because it was intended by the GM that we follow pretty much any other path. No we could not assume that we could win all fights, in fact we had a fight a few rooms just inside the place and a while prior to that room where we could have and almost did wipe that was not so dramatically above our abilities. We we given no support for that fight because we were aware of it before hand and with a timer were forced to make a choice to run or fight because they were actually patrolling the area we were in. We quickly decided to fight and setup an ambush that started very well ... then went very bad very fast. The last fight was intended to be a boss fight trap of sort where we found the clues and willingly lock ourselves in a room with enemies and see who comes out with that in mind they were intended for us to fight in a deadly battle at level 8 where some of us might not make it. Walking in as we did we were trapped with a room of horrors, no way, out no idea what just happened, and no possible way to win. To give you and idea, we walked through a door and got locked in with a jabba the hut style turning wall to face a full vampire (not a spawn), a werewolf, a mindflare, and something else monstrous I can't remember. Though I can't remember our level exactly just that their were 3 of us and way to low for the fight. Even dumbed down we lost a PC, our made was killed and that player rolled a paladin as a replacement. We were all cool with the fight and the out come. I am pretty sure the "walk around the corner and TPK" scenario he told use he saved us from would not have gone over so well just because as I said we had no foreshadowing to be setup for slaughter. Giving players a fight they need to run from or telling them there is an enemy in this castle than can kill you all is one thing. Telling them to search for clues, they turn a few corners and die a horrible death all at once is different. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The "Powergamers (Min/maxer)" vs "Alpha Gamers" vs "Role Play Gamers" vs "GM" balance mismatch "problem(s)"
Top