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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7718925" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>When I say "advancing the narrative," I do refer to the character attempting to resolve a conflict within the narrative space of the imagined world. It's something my character wants to achieve. It's something naturally done in-character. <em>I am</em> in their head space, Mhoram. What would <em>I</em> (my character) do in this situation? <em>I</em> might consult a friend or someone who might know something relevant. <em>I</em> think about someone in <em>my</em> life who would be applicable. Do Who might that be? I know anyone who works for the police? No. Do I know any car dealers? No. Do I know any mobsters? None that I know of. But there was that one kid I grew up with during primary school who became a mechanic that I see on occasion. What was his name? Ah ha! I remember Carl now! I just had to jog my memory a bit. Asking the GM who that is or having them tell me about my backstory would be immersion breaking. </p><p></p><p><em>You can't have character input without player input.</em> It's impossible no matter how immersed in roleplaying you believe yourself to be. Roleplaying is essentially player input pretending to be character input. There is a fundamental disconnect between player knowledge and character knowledge, which rubs both ways. <em>My character does not know what I as a player knows, and I do not know everything that my character knows.</em> Your entire character backstory is a product of player input. But it's also not something that someone creates whole cloth, but piece by piece, often in the gameplay itself. Do you honestly sit there as a player and chart out every single NPC that your character ever knew in their backstory? Every memory? Every event in your storied life? Do you really know no one apart from pre-established NPCs in this city? But your character invented a sister for your character! She was not pre-established. Who said she existed? Do you expect that the GM would laboriously create every single one of those characters for you prior to gameplay? </p><p></p><p>This is what I find immersive about Fate's system. You dismissively refer to it as inventing the fact that they exist on the spot, but I find that it allows for simultaneous character-discovery and world-development. It's me as a player establishing my character and their story as I play, because I don't know everything about my character even if I operate with the conceit that I do. As a player, I am discovering my character, and the more that I discover, the more immersed that I become. </p><p></p><p>Again, I know players who at a similar extreme (almost annoyingly so when they castigate other players who don't share their preferences), and they don't share your problem with Fate. </p><p></p><p>What do you mean by disconnected from aspects? I think that their connection with aspects is immersion-generating for me. (And their connection with aspects does adjust die rolls. You invoke your aspect "World's Greatest Detective" to get an additional +2 to your Investigate roll as Batman.) If your are referring to compels, then I will get my fighting gloves out, because I have heard way too many misconceptions and gross exaggerations about compels to let those punches against Fate go unanswered for.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7718925, member: 5142"] When I say "advancing the narrative," I do refer to the character attempting to resolve a conflict within the narrative space of the imagined world. It's something my character wants to achieve. It's something naturally done in-character. [I]I am[/I] in their head space, Mhoram. What would [I]I[/I] (my character) do in this situation? [I]I[/I] might consult a friend or someone who might know something relevant. [I]I[/I] think about someone in [I]my[/I] life who would be applicable. Do Who might that be? I know anyone who works for the police? No. Do I know any car dealers? No. Do I know any mobsters? None that I know of. But there was that one kid I grew up with during primary school who became a mechanic that I see on occasion. What was his name? Ah ha! I remember Carl now! I just had to jog my memory a bit. Asking the GM who that is or having them tell me about my backstory would be immersion breaking. [I]You can't have character input without player input.[/I] It's impossible no matter how immersed in roleplaying you believe yourself to be. Roleplaying is essentially player input pretending to be character input. There is a fundamental disconnect between player knowledge and character knowledge, which rubs both ways. [I]My character does not know what I as a player knows, and I do not know everything that my character knows.[/I] Your entire character backstory is a product of player input. But it's also not something that someone creates whole cloth, but piece by piece, often in the gameplay itself. Do you honestly sit there as a player and chart out every single NPC that your character ever knew in their backstory? Every memory? Every event in your storied life? Do you really know no one apart from pre-established NPCs in this city? But your character invented a sister for your character! She was not pre-established. Who said she existed? Do you expect that the GM would laboriously create every single one of those characters for you prior to gameplay? This is what I find immersive about Fate's system. You dismissively refer to it as inventing the fact that they exist on the spot, but I find that it allows for simultaneous character-discovery and world-development. It's me as a player establishing my character and their story as I play, because I don't know everything about my character even if I operate with the conceit that I do. As a player, I am discovering my character, and the more that I discover, the more immersed that I become. Again, I know players who at a similar extreme (almost annoyingly so when they castigate other players who don't share their preferences), and they don't share your problem with Fate. What do you mean by disconnected from aspects? I think that their connection with aspects is immersion-generating for me. (And their connection with aspects does adjust die rolls. You invoke your aspect "World's Greatest Detective" to get an additional +2 to your Investigate roll as Batman.) If your are referring to compels, then I will get my fighting gloves out, because I have heard way too many misconceptions and gross exaggerations about compels to let those punches against Fate go unanswered for. [/QUOTE]
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