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The problem with Evil races is not what you think
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<blockquote data-quote="transmission89" data-source="post: 8336651" data-attributes="member: 6688441"><p>These are the logical continuations of the initial arguing points . If you accept the argument that Orcs have problems, this is the absurdity you open the door to. Then we have the “trope problems” of barbarians as a class (certainly far more problematic from a rw perspective than fantasy creatures as it actually has rw connotations of views of human cultures- yet strangely is never brought up) , sexist tropes of witches and hags, feudalism which defines people’s places in “the natural order” etc. And again, his Orcs are categorically not Mongols. It was a racially loaded physically descriptive simile. I already discussed this in post #53, so please, let’s not have that quote thrown up yet again…</p><p></p><p>And you’re right, even were the origins the most problematic that ever were, the use in game has outgrown them (the genetic fallacy) I was also talking about.</p><p>But alas, given the lengths that some have gone to draw these tenuous connections between an apparently ready well of racist literature, as well as descriptive othering (which has been used as a literary device for fantastical monsters before being applied by racists to different ethnic groups, to dehumanise them and make them seem like fantastical monsters *) you’ll reach the same conclusion I have that it’s akin to shouting in the wind with this dogma. Though take comfort, as I have, in the fact it’s only really a small minority of posters (let alone playing population) that reach this far.</p><p></p><p>As for POC gamer’s work. Meh. He makes the case against himself in his two part complaint about feeling hard done by. He outlines in part 1 how wotc operates with outside writers, then complains how they do just that. His writing of his initial adventure was so far beyond the scope of what had been asked, and tried to bring in wide reaching lore changes to the forgotten realms with it. You bet that was going to be cut. I believe also the word primitive used in that adventure was only used to refer to the state of the structures in a Grippli faction hideaway camp (having fled from the problems detailed in the adventure) rather than to the grippli themselves (though I’m happy to be corrected on this as I’ve not looked too carefully at the adventure).</p><p></p><p>*people of colour have not been the sole recipients of this. The Roman view of Celts for example, or the Anglo Saxon view of Viking raiders upon their shores etc. Nor have people of colour been free of using this, Japanese views on Koreans and Chinese prior to WW2 etc. Pretty much all humanity has been awful to one another throughout history. Which is why monsters are great, so specific links to human groups are avoided in classic tales of good vs evil, or, if you want to go the other way, challenging perceptions of what it means to be humans when we see aspects of all of us reflected back to us. They’re flexible like that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="transmission89, post: 8336651, member: 6688441"] These are the logical continuations of the initial arguing points . If you accept the argument that Orcs have problems, this is the absurdity you open the door to. Then we have the “trope problems” of barbarians as a class (certainly far more problematic from a rw perspective than fantasy creatures as it actually has rw connotations of views of human cultures- yet strangely is never brought up) , sexist tropes of witches and hags, feudalism which defines people’s places in “the natural order” etc. And again, his Orcs are categorically not Mongols. It was a racially loaded physically descriptive simile. I already discussed this in post #53, so please, let’s not have that quote thrown up yet again… And you’re right, even were the origins the most problematic that ever were, the use in game has outgrown them (the genetic fallacy) I was also talking about. But alas, given the lengths that some have gone to draw these tenuous connections between an apparently ready well of racist literature, as well as descriptive othering (which has been used as a literary device for fantastical monsters before being applied by racists to different ethnic groups, to dehumanise them and make them seem like fantastical monsters *) you’ll reach the same conclusion I have that it’s akin to shouting in the wind with this dogma. Though take comfort, as I have, in the fact it’s only really a small minority of posters (let alone playing population) that reach this far. As for POC gamer’s work. Meh. He makes the case against himself in his two part complaint about feeling hard done by. He outlines in part 1 how wotc operates with outside writers, then complains how they do just that. His writing of his initial adventure was so far beyond the scope of what had been asked, and tried to bring in wide reaching lore changes to the forgotten realms with it. You bet that was going to be cut. I believe also the word primitive used in that adventure was only used to refer to the state of the structures in a Grippli faction hideaway camp (having fled from the problems detailed in the adventure) rather than to the grippli themselves (though I’m happy to be corrected on this as I’ve not looked too carefully at the adventure). *people of colour have not been the sole recipients of this. The Roman view of Celts for example, or the Anglo Saxon view of Viking raiders upon their shores etc. Nor have people of colour been free of using this, Japanese views on Koreans and Chinese prior to WW2 etc. Pretty much all humanity has been awful to one another throughout history. Which is why monsters are great, so specific links to human groups are avoided in classic tales of good vs evil, or, if you want to go the other way, challenging perceptions of what it means to be humans when we see aspects of all of us reflected back to us. They’re flexible like that. [/QUOTE]
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