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The Real problem with 3e D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="EvilDwarf" data-source="post: 3377492" data-attributes="member: 46843"><p>Well, this is a sad state of affairs then, which is why I was extremely disappointed to hear that 4.0 was a ways off. Enthusiastic beginners, so sad to see the look on their faces when they realize what they are in for? That's exactly right, I agree. And it's a shame. And the need for initiative charts and index cards and tokens and so on, not to mention that we are even at a point in the long history of D&D that we wish for computer programs to handle the complexity of in-game calculations? My gods, where has the fun gone??</p><p></p><p>Arguably the best thing 3E brought us was the unified d20 mechanic. Just about every other aspect of the game now is like 1E/2E with a Magic: the Gathering template applied to it. By that I mean that 3E requires so much SYSTEM mastery--compared to 1E/2E--that many of the fun elements have become buried under calculations, etc. Fun things like whipping up a character relatively quickly and without the need for calculating character sheets or computer generators; fun things like multiple combats per session; fun things like stacking on the armor bonuses and wading into a horde of enemies. Fun things like watching your kids play their first game without slamming head-first into the complexities described by the OP. Of course, there is ALWAYS some element of system mastery needed, but I argue that's a much higher bar for 3E than previous editions.</p><p></p><p>::Turn on old-folks mode:: Why, I remember a day when the only thing that differentiated fighters was their equipment and the way they were role played. We didn't need all them feats and skills to tell one from the other. We actually had to come up with different character personalities to distinguish our characters, up hill both ways and in ten feet of snow. ::Old folks mode off::</p><p></p><p>Limiting the source books is a cop-out solution, too. For instance, why should I have to ignore Reserve Feats from Complete Mage when it's what spell casters should be all along? That is, by having to cut the complexity by limiting source material for your campaign, you are in effect arguing that you have to limit complexity by ignoring improvements in the system. In a cleaned-up, unified, lean-and-mean 4E, for example, Reserve Feats would probably be a class feature for arcane casters. But, if I want that fix now, I have to worry about bringing in a new system feature and worry about how it will or will not fit with my other game mechanics I'm using, if doing so is balanced/unbalanced, etc.</p><p></p><p>OK, I'm out of breath.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EvilDwarf, post: 3377492, member: 46843"] Well, this is a sad state of affairs then, which is why I was extremely disappointed to hear that 4.0 was a ways off. Enthusiastic beginners, so sad to see the look on their faces when they realize what they are in for? That's exactly right, I agree. And it's a shame. And the need for initiative charts and index cards and tokens and so on, not to mention that we are even at a point in the long history of D&D that we wish for computer programs to handle the complexity of in-game calculations? My gods, where has the fun gone?? Arguably the best thing 3E brought us was the unified d20 mechanic. Just about every other aspect of the game now is like 1E/2E with a Magic: the Gathering template applied to it. By that I mean that 3E requires so much SYSTEM mastery--compared to 1E/2E--that many of the fun elements have become buried under calculations, etc. Fun things like whipping up a character relatively quickly and without the need for calculating character sheets or computer generators; fun things like multiple combats per session; fun things like stacking on the armor bonuses and wading into a horde of enemies. Fun things like watching your kids play their first game without slamming head-first into the complexities described by the OP. Of course, there is ALWAYS some element of system mastery needed, but I argue that's a much higher bar for 3E than previous editions. ::Turn on old-folks mode:: Why, I remember a day when the only thing that differentiated fighters was their equipment and the way they were role played. We didn't need all them feats and skills to tell one from the other. We actually had to come up with different character personalities to distinguish our characters, up hill both ways and in ten feet of snow. ::Old folks mode off:: Limiting the source books is a cop-out solution, too. For instance, why should I have to ignore Reserve Feats from Complete Mage when it's what spell casters should be all along? That is, by having to cut the complexity by limiting source material for your campaign, you are in effect arguing that you have to limit complexity by ignoring improvements in the system. In a cleaned-up, unified, lean-and-mean 4E, for example, Reserve Feats would probably be a class feature for arcane casters. But, if I want that fix now, I have to worry about bringing in a new system feature and worry about how it will or will not fit with my other game mechanics I'm using, if doing so is balanced/unbalanced, etc. OK, I'm out of breath. [/QUOTE]
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