Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The reason 4E doesn't work well except for "Dungeon Delves" or "Encounters"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AsmodeusDM" data-source="post: 5875023" data-attributes="member: 32600"><p>I am currently running a "sandbox" style game, in a Kingmakerish vein using a region of my own device and some basic "realm" rules with the PCs as heroes and would-be leaders.</p><p> </p><p>Difference is that I am using 4e as a game engine.</p><p> </p><p>Well for starters, for all those people who say that 3e sucks because casters can do everything and fighters just have to stand around, but they fixed that in 4e.... you must only be talking about combat.</p><p> </p><p>The reason is because of rituals: the druid and the wizard have 'em the rest don't. And when it comes to sandbox-style play i.e. in a not-precisely-defined-"encounter"-space all their "super kewl" daily attack powers and utility powers dont' mean a thing.</p><p> </p><p>Meanwhile, the druid and wizard are wrecking the region with the simplest of rituals which I can tell:</p><p> </p><p>1. WotC never designed to actually be used</p><p>2. If they were designed to be used they were strictly thinking from a 4-5 round combat perspective.</p><p> </p><p>Example?</p><p> </p><p>Using a very simple low-level ritual and for the cost of about 55gp the wizard was able to transcribe an Undead Ward around the entire town that is their homebase. With a very high Arcana check I think only level 18 or higher undead can bypass or effect the warding.</p><p> </p><p>Given that one of their major foes in the region is a lich-queen intent on destroying the cities and towns of the free people, this has essentially made their town immune to her armies.</p><p> </p><p>(it should be noted that the party is about level 6.. and we intend to stop the game around low paragon.. so the highest level foe.. the lich-queen is pegged at 15).</p><p> </p><p>Similarily to those vast hordes of undead.. a simple spell makes the party appear to be "undead to all non-intelligent undead" no save, no attack roll, extremely long duration. This lets them (for about 35gp) infiltrate or bypass almost the entirety of the lich-queens large forces of undead.... sure sure the occasional "smart" undead like a Wight Knight Captain or such will catch on to them... but by and by for no skill check and minimal costs rituals allow them to completely mitigate entire ARMIES.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>So yeah... 4E (like 3e before it) is still broken quite easily by:</p><p> </p><p>1. Magic</p><p>2. Players who are willing to put their heads together to thing of creative ways to use #1</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AsmodeusDM, post: 5875023, member: 32600"] I am currently running a "sandbox" style game, in a Kingmakerish vein using a region of my own device and some basic "realm" rules with the PCs as heroes and would-be leaders. Difference is that I am using 4e as a game engine. Well for starters, for all those people who say that 3e sucks because casters can do everything and fighters just have to stand around, but they fixed that in 4e.... you must only be talking about combat. The reason is because of rituals: the druid and the wizard have 'em the rest don't. And when it comes to sandbox-style play i.e. in a not-precisely-defined-"encounter"-space all their "super kewl" daily attack powers and utility powers dont' mean a thing. Meanwhile, the druid and wizard are wrecking the region with the simplest of rituals which I can tell: 1. WotC never designed to actually be used 2. If they were designed to be used they were strictly thinking from a 4-5 round combat perspective. Example? Using a very simple low-level ritual and for the cost of about 55gp the wizard was able to transcribe an Undead Ward around the entire town that is their homebase. With a very high Arcana check I think only level 18 or higher undead can bypass or effect the warding. Given that one of their major foes in the region is a lich-queen intent on destroying the cities and towns of the free people, this has essentially made their town immune to her armies. (it should be noted that the party is about level 6.. and we intend to stop the game around low paragon.. so the highest level foe.. the lich-queen is pegged at 15). Similarily to those vast hordes of undead.. a simple spell makes the party appear to be "undead to all non-intelligent undead" no save, no attack roll, extremely long duration. This lets them (for about 35gp) infiltrate or bypass almost the entirety of the lich-queens large forces of undead.... sure sure the occasional "smart" undead like a Wight Knight Captain or such will catch on to them... but by and by for no skill check and minimal costs rituals allow them to completely mitigate entire ARMIES. So yeah... 4E (like 3e before it) is still broken quite easily by: 1. Magic 2. Players who are willing to put their heads together to thing of creative ways to use #1 [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The reason 4E doesn't work well except for "Dungeon Delves" or "Encounters"
Top