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The Rise And Fall Of Evil Genius Games
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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 9277542" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p>OK, [USER=1798]@sigfried[/USER], so I realized that, perhaps ironically, I was the one arguing and lecturing, so here's my shortened answer.</p><p></p><p>The point isn't to put an argument to rest or to lecture people who have displayed bigoted attitudes. It's to flat out let people know that bigotry isn't welcome. Which you haven't done. You said that you called someone out for using terms like "wokewarrior," and you called it inappropriate and rude. But all that means is you told them that their bigotry was OK--it was their <em>tone of voice </em>that was wrong. You even say so in another post here, when you say <em>"But if a bigot sits down next to me, and minds their manners, and treats the trans woman on the other side of the table respectfully, then I'm not going to kick them out just because I know something others don't". </em>No, this isn't being neutral or apolitical for the sake of the game. This is choosing the side of the bigot.</p><p></p><p>And yes, mods do that. I've seen the mods <em>here </em>call people out on their bigotry and tell them it has no place on this forum. </p><p></p><p>As to pronouns, shockingly, non-transgender people use pronouns as well. I'm a cisgender woman. Look over there <--- my pronouns. Why? So people know how to refer to me, and also because gaming is still so male-leaning that many people, without any ill-intent on their part, default to assuming I'm a man.</p><p></p><p>But by talking only about robots and aliens, you wasted an opportunity to show inclusiveness. Because it's <em>not </em>political to say something like <em>"some people may want to play aliens or robots that don't have an analog to human chromosomes but have adopted a human gender role. Some people may want to play non-binary or transgender characters. Many people find that writing 'he/him' or 'she/her' is no more difficult or time-consuming than writing 'male' or 'female'. Whatever their reasoning, I tried to make this sheet accessible to them."</em></p><p></p><p>By not saying something like that, <em>you </em>are the one to make being non-binary or transgender--or even a cisgender person who uses pronouns--into something that's political, into something that you don't want to talk about for the sake of the game.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps sadly, we don't live in the kind of world where we can actually be neutral on subjects like this. You can't go "live and let live, as long as they're polite" when one side would be happy seeing the other side dead. </p><p></p><p>I will quote this bit:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's you using too many words again, because we're not talking about "everyone" at the company. We're talking about one specific person. Bringing in how everyone makes mistakes has nothing to do with that one specific person. Nor was I talking about <em>deliberate </em>misgendering. I was I was talking about not caring enough to try to remember, about not making an effort to remember.</p><p></p><p>One of my friends in my gaming circle is non-binary, although when we met them, they were using gendered pronouns--it took them a while to figure out who they are. So yes, the rest of us all have slipped up on occasion because we got used to one set and then had to remember another set (and it doesn't help us that, through fun with genetics, they present fairly strongly as their birth-assigned gender). Those are literally honest mistakes on our part, and they <em>know </em>that, and 99% of the time, we get their pronouns right.</p><p></p><p>It would be very different if we used the wrong pronouns, apologized, and then <em>kept on doing it</em>, because it was just too hard to remember the right ones, or because we never bothered to correct ourselves mentally, or because we just didn't care enough.</p><p></p><p>So when Dave uses the wrong pronouns, is it <em>truly </em>an honest mistake, just a slip of the tongue, or is it because he doesn't care enough to get it right? Considering the other things he's been accused of, I think you know what I meant, which is why you kept dancing around the topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 9277542, member: 6915329"] OK, [USER=1798]@sigfried[/USER], so I realized that, perhaps ironically, I was the one arguing and lecturing, so here's my shortened answer. The point isn't to put an argument to rest or to lecture people who have displayed bigoted attitudes. It's to flat out let people know that bigotry isn't welcome. Which you haven't done. You said that you called someone out for using terms like "wokewarrior," and you called it inappropriate and rude. But all that means is you told them that their bigotry was OK--it was their [I]tone of voice [/I]that was wrong. You even say so in another post here, when you say [I]"But if a bigot sits down next to me, and minds their manners, and treats the trans woman on the other side of the table respectfully, then I'm not going to kick them out just because I know something others don't". [/I]No, this isn't being neutral or apolitical for the sake of the game. This is choosing the side of the bigot.[I][/I] And yes, mods do that. I've seen the mods [I]here [/I]call people out on their bigotry and tell them it has no place on this forum. As to pronouns, shockingly, non-transgender people use pronouns as well. I'm a cisgender woman. Look over there <--- my pronouns. Why? So people know how to refer to me, and also because gaming is still so male-leaning that many people, without any ill-intent on their part, default to assuming I'm a man. But by talking only about robots and aliens, you wasted an opportunity to show inclusiveness. Because it's [I]not [/I]political to say something like [I]"some people may want to play aliens or robots that don't have an analog to human chromosomes but have adopted a human gender role. Some people may want to play non-binary or transgender characters. Many people find that writing 'he/him' or 'she/her' is no more difficult or time-consuming than writing 'male' or 'female'. Whatever their reasoning, I tried to make this sheet accessible to them."[/I] By not saying something like that, [I]you [/I]are the one to make being non-binary or transgender--or even a cisgender person who uses pronouns--into something that's political, into something that you don't want to talk about for the sake of the game. Perhaps sadly, we don't live in the kind of world where we can actually be neutral on subjects like this. You can't go "live and let live, as long as they're polite" when one side would be happy seeing the other side dead. I will quote this bit: Here's you using too many words again, because we're not talking about "everyone" at the company. We're talking about one specific person. Bringing in how everyone makes mistakes has nothing to do with that one specific person. Nor was I talking about [I]deliberate [/I]misgendering. I was I was talking about not caring enough to try to remember, about not making an effort to remember. One of my friends in my gaming circle is non-binary, although when we met them, they were using gendered pronouns--it took them a while to figure out who they are. So yes, the rest of us all have slipped up on occasion because we got used to one set and then had to remember another set (and it doesn't help us that, through fun with genetics, they present fairly strongly as their birth-assigned gender). Those are literally honest mistakes on our part, and they [I]know [/I]that, and 99% of the time, we get their pronouns right. It would be very different if we used the wrong pronouns, apologized, and then [I]kept on doing it[/I], because it was just too hard to remember the right ones, or because we never bothered to correct ourselves mentally, or because we just didn't care enough. So when Dave uses the wrong pronouns, is it [I]truly [/I]an honest mistake, just a slip of the tongue, or is it because he doesn't care enough to get it right? Considering the other things he's been accused of, I think you know what I meant, which is why you kept dancing around the topic. [/QUOTE]
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