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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8408186" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Again, "as core as you want it to be" is a nonsense statement if you are trying to argue that we should only discuss core.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Does it matter how much it is described? It was presented as something that exists. It is setting specific. No, they didn't spend more than a few paragraphs outlining it but that doesn't make it suddenly not setting specific.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, the Realms and Greyhawk. </p><p></p><p>And, for the third time, real world religions and mythologies are not "core DnD" they are real world religions and mythologies. Especially since they haven't actually done anything different with them, just put their names out there. Except in those settings which they were used.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, since you only want to talk about the core, and not the homebrew settings... and the core books talk about those settings... where does that leave us. I can't assume which books you have? That has nothing to do with anything. I've actually been discussing multiple different settings too, which makes this discussion "pretty darn generic" as well, so what's up with the derailment and your sudden desire to suddenly want to dismiss things because they are only "mentioned" by the core, but not core.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Let's go back to the beginning of this conversation, shall we? </p><p></p><p>I was talking to you about Orcus and about Kelemvor. I was pointing out that both beings started as mortals, gained a bunch of power and worshippers, and one is a Demon Lord and the other is a God. And that there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between those two titles that we have been able to find. Which made your comment that a being like Orcus being "considered" a god but that being meaningless because you can be considered a First Nations individual but aren't because you don't match the bloodline kind of ridiculous</p><p></p><p>You said I was wrong, only in FR did Orcus start as a mortal and all settings are homebrew so we should only discuss core things. </p><p></p><p>Which, as I pointed out then, since Kelemvor is also from FR, your complaint about homebrew is kind of ridiculous, because I was using FR lore for both sides. But anyways, this is what started all of this. I wasn't allowed to use the example of Orcus and Kelemvor, because Orcus being mortal in FR is homebrew and I should instead use the generic version where he just appeared in the Abyss. Which... is actually never claimed in the Core Books.</p><p></p><p>So, I gave an example, using the setting, and you decried it because "settings are homebrew". You have now repeatedly said that the core books using examples from the settings is fine, because they are only examples. Which is exactly what I did. </p><p></p><p>So, I'm done with this line of discussion. You seem to just want "core" to mean whatever it needs to mean so that you can dismiss my points and examples out of hand. Referencing the settings is fine for the Core Books, because they do a lot of different settings, so it is fine for me to do the same. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Finally, there was an interesting line I saw in the MM while double checking what we know about "core Orcus" which was that Demon Lords are specifically "unique fiends whose power can rival the gods". So, it seems that the Core states that the Demon Lords are about as powerful as the gods. Not less powerful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8408186, member: 6801228"] Again, "as core as you want it to be" is a nonsense statement if you are trying to argue that we should only discuss core. Does it matter how much it is described? It was presented as something that exists. It is setting specific. No, they didn't spend more than a few paragraphs outlining it but that doesn't make it suddenly not setting specific. So, the Realms and Greyhawk. And, for the third time, real world religions and mythologies are not "core DnD" they are real world religions and mythologies. Especially since they haven't actually done anything different with them, just put their names out there. Except in those settings which they were used. So, since you only want to talk about the core, and not the homebrew settings... and the core books talk about those settings... where does that leave us. I can't assume which books you have? That has nothing to do with anything. I've actually been discussing multiple different settings too, which makes this discussion "pretty darn generic" as well, so what's up with the derailment and your sudden desire to suddenly want to dismiss things because they are only "mentioned" by the core, but not core. Let's go back to the beginning of this conversation, shall we? I was talking to you about Orcus and about Kelemvor. I was pointing out that both beings started as mortals, gained a bunch of power and worshippers, and one is a Demon Lord and the other is a God. And that there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between those two titles that we have been able to find. Which made your comment that a being like Orcus being "considered" a god but that being meaningless because you can be considered a First Nations individual but aren't because you don't match the bloodline kind of ridiculous You said I was wrong, only in FR did Orcus start as a mortal and all settings are homebrew so we should only discuss core things. Which, as I pointed out then, since Kelemvor is also from FR, your complaint about homebrew is kind of ridiculous, because I was using FR lore for both sides. But anyways, this is what started all of this. I wasn't allowed to use the example of Orcus and Kelemvor, because Orcus being mortal in FR is homebrew and I should instead use the generic version where he just appeared in the Abyss. Which... is actually never claimed in the Core Books. So, I gave an example, using the setting, and you decried it because "settings are homebrew". You have now repeatedly said that the core books using examples from the settings is fine, because they are only examples. Which is exactly what I did. So, I'm done with this line of discussion. You seem to just want "core" to mean whatever it needs to mean so that you can dismiss my points and examples out of hand. Referencing the settings is fine for the Core Books, because they do a lot of different settings, so it is fine for me to do the same. Finally, there was an interesting line I saw in the MM while double checking what we know about "core Orcus" which was that Demon Lords are specifically "unique fiends whose power can rival the gods". So, it seems that the Core states that the Demon Lords are about as powerful as the gods. Not less powerful. [/QUOTE]
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