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The roots of 4e exposed?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7459796" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The distinction is between qualities of the product, vs reactions of the marketplace.</p><p></p><p>That D&D is 'too slow' to play is subjective - I've happilly put in 6 or 8 hr sessions of D&D, even 12+ back in the day, and thoroughly enjoyed it; but I've know people who, having seen how long we spent playing it, couldn't fathom holding interest in such a thing for so long. </p><p></p><p>But how long it takes to play D&D is something you can time with a stop watch if you wanted to.</p><p></p><p> Except no one played to that standard, everyone played some variant or sub-set or whatnot of it. </p><p></p><p>2e slowly started to change that, as it got more and more elaborate.</p><p></p><p>But, with 3.0, it really /did/ become a standard. The 3e community was obsessed with RAW, and with the chargen/level-up 'build' meta-game that required a commonly-accepted RaW as a foundation. </p><p></p><p>4e's crime against gaming was to do a little too good a job in fixing up that standard and making it readily accessible to new player and even (horrors) somewhat balanced. While that didn't eliminate the CharOp meta-game, or make it impossible to run a wide variety of different campaigns, it did change things for both. The former got a much lower pay-off, and the latter became more about players re-skinning to get what they wanted, than about DMs re-writing rules.</p><p></p><p> 5e brought back the idea that it was just a 'starting point,' so fix it up how you like.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7459796, member: 996"] The distinction is between qualities of the product, vs reactions of the marketplace. That D&D is 'too slow' to play is subjective - I've happilly put in 6 or 8 hr sessions of D&D, even 12+ back in the day, and thoroughly enjoyed it; but I've know people who, having seen how long we spent playing it, couldn't fathom holding interest in such a thing for so long. But how long it takes to play D&D is something you can time with a stop watch if you wanted to. Except no one played to that standard, everyone played some variant or sub-set or whatnot of it. 2e slowly started to change that, as it got more and more elaborate. But, with 3.0, it really /did/ become a standard. The 3e community was obsessed with RAW, and with the chargen/level-up 'build' meta-game that required a commonly-accepted RaW as a foundation. 4e's crime against gaming was to do a little too good a job in fixing up that standard and making it readily accessible to new player and even (horrors) somewhat balanced. While that didn't eliminate the CharOp meta-game, or make it impossible to run a wide variety of different campaigns, it did change things for both. The former got a much lower pay-off, and the latter became more about players re-skinning to get what they wanted, than about DMs re-writing rules. 5e brought back the idea that it was just a 'starting point,' so fix it up how you like. [/QUOTE]
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