Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The skill system is one dimensional.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9101156" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I mean, you did explicitly say, and I quote:</p><p></p><p>If you did not mean to say or imply that it was a "failure," saying that the "vocal" trash-talkers "have the sales figures to prove" "how terrible 4e was" is a pretty bad way to go about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Is it a problem with the <em>system</em>, or is it (as I have repeatedly said) a problem with the <em>presentation?</em> Because that's been my thesis for quite some time now. 4e is a great system. It crit-fumbled its own presentation, during a really really bad business climate, with multiple horrible errors (some self-inflicted, at least one an unpredictable tragedy), including creating its own greatest competition.</p><p></p><p>The feeling and rules <em>don't</em> need to be "broken" to run successfully. Again, as I have said repeatedly, <em>people literally claim the books say things they don't</em>. How can you possibly overcome someone <em>claiming</em> that the books explicitly instruct perfect lockstep encounters when they spend multiple pages <em>in multiple places</em> saying exactly the opposite? How can you overcome someone crapping on the books without ever reading them--as many 4e critics were often forced to admit. (Guess what--I was one of them, at one time!)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, when someone literally claims that the rules require something that the very text explicitly, and repeatedly, rejects...what are you supposed to conclude? That the "real" game is the one invented in the critic's head, and you shouldn't trust your lying eyes?</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's an incredibly insulting way to refer to 4e play, and if you meant it the way you've phrased it, I'm not exactly happy about that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9101156, member: 6790260"] I mean, you did explicitly say, and I quote: If you did not mean to say or imply that it was a "failure," saying that the "vocal" trash-talkers "have the sales figures to prove" "how terrible 4e was" is a pretty bad way to go about it. Is it a problem with the [I]system[/I], or is it (as I have repeatedly said) a problem with the [I]presentation?[/I] Because that's been my thesis for quite some time now. 4e is a great system. It crit-fumbled its own presentation, during a really really bad business climate, with multiple horrible errors (some self-inflicted, at least one an unpredictable tragedy), including creating its own greatest competition. The feeling and rules [I]don't[/I] need to be "broken" to run successfully. Again, as I have said repeatedly, [I]people literally claim the books say things they don't[/I]. How can you possibly overcome someone [I]claiming[/I] that the books explicitly instruct perfect lockstep encounters when they spend multiple pages [I]in multiple places[/I] saying exactly the opposite? How can you overcome someone crapping on the books without ever reading them--as many 4e critics were often forced to admit. (Guess what--I was one of them, at one time!) I mean, when someone literally claims that the rules require something that the very text explicitly, and repeatedly, rejects...what are you supposed to conclude? That the "real" game is the one invented in the critic's head, and you shouldn't trust your lying eyes? That's an incredibly insulting way to refer to 4e play, and if you meant it the way you've phrased it, I'm not exactly happy about that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The skill system is one dimensional.
Top