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The sorcerer shouldn't exist
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<blockquote data-quote="Mecheon" data-source="post: 9321254" data-attributes="member: 6801776"><p>It isn't stealing the spell list? The list is the Arcane Spell List. Anyone can grab from it. Sorcerers, artificers, bards, wizards and warlocks (along with certain other random sub-classes) all grab from the same list but I don't see you saying they're stealing from it. Its a universal list for classes to draw from, its not the wizard's sole domain</p><p></p><p>The wizard's thing isn't "Spell list access" so, no, its nothing like getting all of the Fighter's features. But, you've put down exactly why people were so pissed off when they did that one wizard sub-class that just, got metamagic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If the 'core strength' of a class is 'Accesses more of a list shared between 5 other classes" and nothing else, then that class needs to be redesigned to actually have a relelvant core strength. Its that simple.</p><p></p><p>The problem is the wizard, not the sorcerer.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The sorcerer has a path of its own. "I have X going on so magic is my birthright and I can control magic on a degree other classes can't". It isn't wizard but hot. Wizard is "Book nerd who has to study" and none of that is in place with the sorcerer's stuff. You don't need a spellbook, you're not studying spells. Where's the wizard but hot in the mechanics? Is it just because you have access to spells? Bard has access to spells, why aren't you levying the same claims at it if that's all it takes for two classes to allegedly be the same? It doesn't even use the wizard's strengths of arcane recovery which, is the wizard's real only strength it has! That's how piss-poor the wizard is made.</p><p></p><p>The sorcerer defines itself absolutely fine and doesn't share ANY mechanic with the wizard. Why should they be merged? GIve me a reason that isn't just you saying "oh they're the same". Actually dive into 'em.</p><p></p><p>Either way like, sorcerer's not great but its not like early Ranger or anything like that, which is absolutely a class that couldn't stand on its own merits and why we got two whole redesign attempts there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mecheon, post: 9321254, member: 6801776"] It isn't stealing the spell list? The list is the Arcane Spell List. Anyone can grab from it. Sorcerers, artificers, bards, wizards and warlocks (along with certain other random sub-classes) all grab from the same list but I don't see you saying they're stealing from it. Its a universal list for classes to draw from, its not the wizard's sole domain The wizard's thing isn't "Spell list access" so, no, its nothing like getting all of the Fighter's features. But, you've put down exactly why people were so pissed off when they did that one wizard sub-class that just, got metamagic. If the 'core strength' of a class is 'Accesses more of a list shared between 5 other classes" and nothing else, then that class needs to be redesigned to actually have a relelvant core strength. Its that simple. The problem is the wizard, not the sorcerer. The sorcerer has a path of its own. "I have X going on so magic is my birthright and I can control magic on a degree other classes can't". It isn't wizard but hot. Wizard is "Book nerd who has to study" and none of that is in place with the sorcerer's stuff. You don't need a spellbook, you're not studying spells. Where's the wizard but hot in the mechanics? Is it just because you have access to spells? Bard has access to spells, why aren't you levying the same claims at it if that's all it takes for two classes to allegedly be the same? It doesn't even use the wizard's strengths of arcane recovery which, is the wizard's real only strength it has! That's how piss-poor the wizard is made. The sorcerer defines itself absolutely fine and doesn't share ANY mechanic with the wizard. Why should they be merged? GIve me a reason that isn't just you saying "oh they're the same". Actually dive into 'em. Either way like, sorcerer's not great but its not like early Ranger or anything like that, which is absolutely a class that couldn't stand on its own merits and why we got two whole redesign attempts there. [/QUOTE]
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