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The Stigma of D&D OR Help! I'm Stuck in the D&D Closet?
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<blockquote data-quote="The Baron" data-source="post: 1653545" data-attributes="member: 19794"><p>Which way do you prefer to explain this passion to your friends.</p><p></p><p>Option A: "It's a fantasy game. Like a video game, but with dice. Think Lord of the Rings." </p><p></p><p>Option B: "I play Dungeons and Dragons. Stop laughing. No, seriously. I know all those weird kids played it in high school, but... Vin Deisel plays it, I swear! C'mon man, it's fun and cool and..."</p><p></p><p>And yes, I was a weird kid in high school, but I've grown up. One of the things I've learned is this:</p><p></p><p>Dungeons and Dragons has a stigma.</p><p></p><p>The name has a stigma. People hear those two words and run from the room fearing social castration. (slight exaggeration mode ended)</p><p></p><p>Just tonight, while working at my coffee shop, employee A told employee B that some people wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons with him. </p><p></p><p>Employee B quickly said he was busy, that he didn't know how to play, ANYTHING but the dreaded D&D.</p><p></p><p>And it wasn't just the way Employee B responded, it was how Employee A first spoke. It was like, "I know you're gonna say no." Wait. More like, "If you say yes I'll die from laughter."</p><p></p><p>Go ahead. Say my coworkers are ignorant. Are superficial. Are too cool for their own good. But they're my friends. And they're a fun. And they're smart, mature people. And they wouldn't be caught dead playing D and D. And they would probably be shocked if they found out I did. </p><p></p><p>I hide my books when I bring girls home to my place for the first time. Look, you can say whatever you want, but a girl looks on my desk and realizes this 23 year old owns a "Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide," and she's gonna have second thoughts. I think in horror of the time when I forgot and had to explain.</p><p></p><p>"Well, see I'm thinking of doing video game design, and, and... Why are you putting your shirt back on..."</p><p></p><p>This was a half-lie I had prepared just in case I had ever forgotten to put my books away. The half-lies are always more believable and easier to pull off.</p><p></p><p>So here I am, in the Roleplaying Closet, waiting for the day when coming out will be acceptable. </p><p></p><p>Wizards, give yourself a little help here. Just make a D20 Fantasy. In our society, "cool" is oftentimes a measure of marketing success. If a product is cool, you're usually getting a lot of people to buy it, and it's usually making a lot of money. Your marketing department must've called Vin Deisel and thanked him personally for even muttering the words Dungeons and Dragons. </p><p></p><p>"Vin, we have a great role for you as a half-orc barbarian in a Dungeons and Dragons sequal. What's that? The first movie sucked? The first movie was great! It just came out at the same time as Lord of the Rings and that's why no one saw it. It did have Jeremy Irons. And that Waynes kid. No, the other one."</p><p></p><p>The movie also had a big dude wearing purple lip stick. Ridiculous.</p><p></p><p>The problem with DandD also comes through in the rules. Characters actions explained by alignment. I'm rarely fulfilled when I am told I was attacked because my character was good and the other guy was evil. Over the top magic. A mid-level magic user has more ridiculous abilities than almost any comic book hero. The huge monster list gets to me too. There's skeletons and dragons and sphinxes and genies - did we forget anything? Sometimes I just think some stuff is silly. Kids stuff. Maybe cool when I was 12 years old.</p><p></p><p>"And I'm invisible! And I'm walking on the ceiling! And I turn that guy into a fishy! And a throw ball of super ice at the evil demon! And that medusa's not wearing a bra! Blamo! Kaboom!"</p><p></p><p>When I think Fantasy, I think Middle Earth and Wheel of Time...</p><p></p><p>Monte's Arcana Unearthed feels like a step in the right direction. If there had been a basic D20 Fantasy book, the worlds created would be so much more diverse. Instead we get Eberron. While it's cool in it's own right as a D and D subtype, it does little for the Fantasy genre as a whole.</p><p></p><p>Love the genre, love the game, hate the setting.</p><p></p><p>Leave DandD for the teenagers. Give me D20 Fantasy so I can keep playing my game but feel more confident about what I'm doing. That I'm not just this kid in a basement hacking into dragons. That I'm a grown up adult with a job, responsibilities, who likes going to the bars, and going out for parties, and going out on dates. </p><p></p><p>"Hells no. I don't play D and D. But I do play a fantasy game every once in a while with some buddies of mine. You ever play a video game? Then so have you."</p><p></p><p>And don't try to argue that a name means nothing. The name means a lot. Would you give up your name? It influences everything from the way a person initially reacts, and in the case of Dungeons and Dragons, many facets of the rules design. Think of classes... Clerics and polytheism. Wizards and their booklearnin' magic. It's pigeon holes you as a world designer!</p><p></p><p>So, what do you think? Just make up a homebrew, stop complaining, and stop caring what your friends think. Or maybe I should just accept that roleplaying is just doomed to never be mainstream. It's a subculture. Stop trying to make the game "cool" and ruining it for those people who love it, just because you can't accept a little unwarrented embarrassment!</p><p></p><p>Sorry for the length, but it's been on my mind for a while. Discuss if you feel so inclined.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Baron, post: 1653545, member: 19794"] Which way do you prefer to explain this passion to your friends. Option A: "It's a fantasy game. Like a video game, but with dice. Think Lord of the Rings." Option B: "I play Dungeons and Dragons. Stop laughing. No, seriously. I know all those weird kids played it in high school, but... Vin Deisel plays it, I swear! C'mon man, it's fun and cool and..." And yes, I was a weird kid in high school, but I've grown up. One of the things I've learned is this: Dungeons and Dragons has a stigma. The name has a stigma. People hear those two words and run from the room fearing social castration. (slight exaggeration mode ended) Just tonight, while working at my coffee shop, employee A told employee B that some people wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons with him. Employee B quickly said he was busy, that he didn't know how to play, ANYTHING but the dreaded D&D. And it wasn't just the way Employee B responded, it was how Employee A first spoke. It was like, "I know you're gonna say no." Wait. More like, "If you say yes I'll die from laughter." Go ahead. Say my coworkers are ignorant. Are superficial. Are too cool for their own good. But they're my friends. And they're a fun. And they're smart, mature people. And they wouldn't be caught dead playing D and D. And they would probably be shocked if they found out I did. I hide my books when I bring girls home to my place for the first time. Look, you can say whatever you want, but a girl looks on my desk and realizes this 23 year old owns a "Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide," and she's gonna have second thoughts. I think in horror of the time when I forgot and had to explain. "Well, see I'm thinking of doing video game design, and, and... Why are you putting your shirt back on..." This was a half-lie I had prepared just in case I had ever forgotten to put my books away. The half-lies are always more believable and easier to pull off. So here I am, in the Roleplaying Closet, waiting for the day when coming out will be acceptable. Wizards, give yourself a little help here. Just make a D20 Fantasy. In our society, "cool" is oftentimes a measure of marketing success. If a product is cool, you're usually getting a lot of people to buy it, and it's usually making a lot of money. Your marketing department must've called Vin Deisel and thanked him personally for even muttering the words Dungeons and Dragons. "Vin, we have a great role for you as a half-orc barbarian in a Dungeons and Dragons sequal. What's that? The first movie sucked? The first movie was great! It just came out at the same time as Lord of the Rings and that's why no one saw it. It did have Jeremy Irons. And that Waynes kid. No, the other one." The movie also had a big dude wearing purple lip stick. Ridiculous. The problem with DandD also comes through in the rules. Characters actions explained by alignment. I'm rarely fulfilled when I am told I was attacked because my character was good and the other guy was evil. Over the top magic. A mid-level magic user has more ridiculous abilities than almost any comic book hero. The huge monster list gets to me too. There's skeletons and dragons and sphinxes and genies - did we forget anything? Sometimes I just think some stuff is silly. Kids stuff. Maybe cool when I was 12 years old. "And I'm invisible! And I'm walking on the ceiling! And I turn that guy into a fishy! And a throw ball of super ice at the evil demon! And that medusa's not wearing a bra! Blamo! Kaboom!" When I think Fantasy, I think Middle Earth and Wheel of Time... Monte's Arcana Unearthed feels like a step in the right direction. If there had been a basic D20 Fantasy book, the worlds created would be so much more diverse. Instead we get Eberron. While it's cool in it's own right as a D and D subtype, it does little for the Fantasy genre as a whole. Love the genre, love the game, hate the setting. Leave DandD for the teenagers. Give me D20 Fantasy so I can keep playing my game but feel more confident about what I'm doing. That I'm not just this kid in a basement hacking into dragons. That I'm a grown up adult with a job, responsibilities, who likes going to the bars, and going out for parties, and going out on dates. "Hells no. I don't play D and D. But I do play a fantasy game every once in a while with some buddies of mine. You ever play a video game? Then so have you." And don't try to argue that a name means nothing. The name means a lot. Would you give up your name? It influences everything from the way a person initially reacts, and in the case of Dungeons and Dragons, many facets of the rules design. Think of classes... Clerics and polytheism. Wizards and their booklearnin' magic. It's pigeon holes you as a world designer! So, what do you think? Just make up a homebrew, stop complaining, and stop caring what your friends think. Or maybe I should just accept that roleplaying is just doomed to never be mainstream. It's a subculture. Stop trying to make the game "cool" and ruining it for those people who love it, just because you can't accept a little unwarrented embarrassment! Sorry for the length, but it's been on my mind for a while. Discuss if you feel so inclined. [/QUOTE]
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