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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5580336" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Meh.</p><p></p><p>Addressing one argument (I find that 4e gets in the way of role-playing) with another (It is impossible to role-play with 4e) is the definition of a straw man.</p><p></p><p>"You can role-play in Monopoly" relates specifically to the claim that "system doesn't matter" re: RPing, to demonstrate the falsity of that claim. It does not mean 4e = Monopoly.</p><p></p><p>You say the message is "I can't do this with 4E because I don't know how, therefore, 4E must not support it". I say the message is "I know you way 4e can do X by process Y, but I do not find process Y satisfying".</p><p></p><p>Really, one cannot even say "The proposition of spending very long times on individual combats in 4e increases focus on the grid" without some folks taking swipes at you for the observation. This despite the fact that the designers realized long combats were a problem with the 3e design, and initially were intending on resolving that problem.</p><p></p><p>Again, meh.</p><p></p><p>Sure, some critics might go a bit overboard. OTOH, until the delve format dies a long-deserved death, there's going to be a lot to criticize....especially if one takes official adventures as evidence about how the design was intended to be used.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, the pendulum seems to be swinging back. And that is, potentially, very good news.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5580336, member: 18280"] Meh. Addressing one argument (I find that 4e gets in the way of role-playing) with another (It is impossible to role-play with 4e) is the definition of a straw man. "You can role-play in Monopoly" relates specifically to the claim that "system doesn't matter" re: RPing, to demonstrate the falsity of that claim. It does not mean 4e = Monopoly. You say the message is "I can't do this with 4E because I don't know how, therefore, 4E must not support it". I say the message is "I know you way 4e can do X by process Y, but I do not find process Y satisfying". Really, one cannot even say "The proposition of spending very long times on individual combats in 4e increases focus on the grid" without some folks taking swipes at you for the observation. This despite the fact that the designers realized long combats were a problem with the 3e design, and initially were intending on resolving that problem. Again, meh. Sure, some critics might go a bit overboard. OTOH, until the delve format dies a long-deserved death, there's going to be a lot to criticize....especially if one takes official adventures as evidence about how the design was intended to be used. OTOH, the pendulum seems to be swinging back. And that is, potentially, very good news. RC [/QUOTE]
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The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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