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Theocracy vs. Magocracy: who would win?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 110866" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>This is a good point and it goes for a Mageocracy as well. At least one poster has assumed that the Mageocracy is chock full of level 20+ wizards with staffs of power. (Or staffs of the Magi--either way, staffs capable of a retributive strike). My example assumes that level 3 to 7 clerics and wizards make up the bulk of the magical forces on both sides with the inner circle being level 11 to 16 and the leaders (the theocrat and the Dread Sorceror-King) being level 17 to 20. This dramatically influences the result as well.</p><p></p><p>As for the true res, that's what imprisonment and soul bind are for. . . .</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The difference between the Vatican's lack of the ability to organize the crusades and the theoretical Theocracy's ability to organize their war effort is the difference between absolute secular power and a (partial) separation of church and state. One of the largest sources of disunity in the crusades was the squabbles between the various monarchs who commanded their armies. Had the Vatican actually levied and organized all of the crusader armies, things would have been quite different.</p><p></p><p>I don't think I'm underestimating the power of a prophet. Jesus and Moses are well known and dramatic prophets (and, in the case of Jesus, I believe significantly more) but there have been many prophets (real and so-called) who came and went without leaving a large mark on the world. Jesus was not the first to claim to be the Messiah, nor was he the last. Most of the would-be messiahs made their claims and died without history making much note of their passing. Jesus and one other (I believe it was Simon Bar-Kobba) made a difference to world history, the rest perished in insignificance. Similarly, the later history of the world is replete with prophets who gained some following but not enough to make a difference. Today, church historians remember Montanus, George Wishart, and William Branham, but most of the world knows only Joseph Smith, John Knox, Martin Luther, and John Calvin.</p><p></p><p>I think that, in that light, the likelihood of an effective "prophet" arising at precisely the wrong point in time for the theocracy is quite slight.</p><p></p><p>As to the distance factor, it's interesting that Peter the Hermits' crusaders had to face hurdles that were almost as difficult to overcome as it would have been for American farm boys to attack Japan without government assistance in 1939. After all, crossing Europe and the Mediteranean with medieval technology is a pretty daunting task for people without any organized assistance from the society's power structures. I suspect that the difference between the two situations is that Peter the Hermit's crusaders were not offered assistance in going to war by their governments but the Americans in 1939 were. As this would apply to the theocracy, I would expect the theocracy to co-opt such prophets as recruiters for their armies rather than simply allow them to roam the countryside stirring up trouble. The prophets in question would probably agree--after all, the theocracy would be doing what they wanted to do: avenge the death of the theocrat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 110866, member: 3146"] This is a good point and it goes for a Mageocracy as well. At least one poster has assumed that the Mageocracy is chock full of level 20+ wizards with staffs of power. (Or staffs of the Magi--either way, staffs capable of a retributive strike). My example assumes that level 3 to 7 clerics and wizards make up the bulk of the magical forces on both sides with the inner circle being level 11 to 16 and the leaders (the theocrat and the Dread Sorceror-King) being level 17 to 20. This dramatically influences the result as well. As for the true res, that's what imprisonment and soul bind are for. . . . The difference between the Vatican's lack of the ability to organize the crusades and the theoretical Theocracy's ability to organize their war effort is the difference between absolute secular power and a (partial) separation of church and state. One of the largest sources of disunity in the crusades was the squabbles between the various monarchs who commanded their armies. Had the Vatican actually levied and organized all of the crusader armies, things would have been quite different. I don't think I'm underestimating the power of a prophet. Jesus and Moses are well known and dramatic prophets (and, in the case of Jesus, I believe significantly more) but there have been many prophets (real and so-called) who came and went without leaving a large mark on the world. Jesus was not the first to claim to be the Messiah, nor was he the last. Most of the would-be messiahs made their claims and died without history making much note of their passing. Jesus and one other (I believe it was Simon Bar-Kobba) made a difference to world history, the rest perished in insignificance. Similarly, the later history of the world is replete with prophets who gained some following but not enough to make a difference. Today, church historians remember Montanus, George Wishart, and William Branham, but most of the world knows only Joseph Smith, John Knox, Martin Luther, and John Calvin. I think that, in that light, the likelihood of an effective "prophet" arising at precisely the wrong point in time for the theocracy is quite slight. As to the distance factor, it's interesting that Peter the Hermits' crusaders had to face hurdles that were almost as difficult to overcome as it would have been for American farm boys to attack Japan without government assistance in 1939. After all, crossing Europe and the Mediteranean with medieval technology is a pretty daunting task for people without any organized assistance from the society's power structures. I suspect that the difference between the two situations is that Peter the Hermit's crusaders were not offered assistance in going to war by their governments but the Americans in 1939 were. As this would apply to the theocracy, I would expect the theocracy to co-opt such prophets as recruiters for their armies rather than simply allow them to roam the countryside stirring up trouble. The prophets in question would probably agree--after all, the theocracy would be doing what they wanted to do: avenge the death of the theocrat. [/QUOTE]
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