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Theory crafting 'Contact Spirit' spell
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6949607" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Yeah, and for me that mostly just goes to show how bad of a spell 'Contact Other Plane' actually is.</p><p></p><p>There is a lot missing from that spell. For example, there is a line beneath 'Elemental Plane' for 'appropriate', which doesn't explain itself and leaves the reader to guess that the caster is asking questions appropriate to that element. But if that is the case, why aren't their 'appropriate' line items below the other entries. </p><p></p><p>And the spell lets you contact a specific elemental, but it doesn't tell you if you can contact an appropriate outer plane or who you contacted or whether if you contact an outer plane you are randomly likely to be answered by Heaven or Hell. Who did answer the call, and did it matter? If I'm asking about Hell, why doesn't that matter?</p><p></p><p>Moreover, it doesn't tell you whether or not, if you are being lied to whether you can use Sense Motive to know, and if a player tried what would be the opposing bluff check?</p><p></p><p>Plus, compared to Commune it's just a lousy spell. I can't think of any time I've seen this spell used, and I know I've never seen it relied on by anyone. </p><p></p><p>It also in my opinion needs some caveats. For example, asking questions about how to destroy the City of Brass might well be appropriate questions to ask a power of the elemental plane of fire, but it would seem to me that even a random power of that plane might take particular umbrage to that line of questioning if they could figure out your intent. Likewise, there is no provision for the PC having direct and personal knowledge or relationship with the powers in question, which in game is not something entirely outside the realm of possibility and certainly by the time a PC could and would use these spells. So there is a ton of fiat situations that a DM will have to handle that aren't called out by the spell.</p><p></p><p>So, yes, I am concerned with how complicated the spell is. If I wasn't, I wouldn't even put this out here. </p><p></p><p>But I also want the final version of the spell to not only be at least somewhat useful, but to serve a world building purpose. Think of all the things you learn about my world from this spell:</p><p></p><p>1) Spirits are common, found almost everywhere, and have a great variety of scope and power.</p><p>2) There are these things called totems, and people set up shrines and leave totems scattered around the world, for the purpose of contacting these spirits.</p><p>3) There are almost certainly commercial enterprises specialized in providing the sort of incenses suitable for contacting spirits of particular sorts, so that you could go into any fair sized town and buy prepared incense of various sorts suitable for various purposes.</p><p>4) All of this together implies something akin to a religious structure - ritual, incense, and shrines and friendly or unfriendly spirits means that there is an animistic religion operating in place of or alongside a more formal polytheistic religion. Or in other words, it world filled with 'small gods'.</p><p>4) There are these secrets called truenames that let you call out a specific spirit, and possession of such a secret has value and probably economic worth. So finding a totem or a truename could be considered a sort of treasure.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you could suggest some reasonable simplifications that still captures the flavor, I'd be all for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6949607, member: 4937"] Yeah, and for me that mostly just goes to show how bad of a spell 'Contact Other Plane' actually is. There is a lot missing from that spell. For example, there is a line beneath 'Elemental Plane' for 'appropriate', which doesn't explain itself and leaves the reader to guess that the caster is asking questions appropriate to that element. But if that is the case, why aren't their 'appropriate' line items below the other entries. And the spell lets you contact a specific elemental, but it doesn't tell you if you can contact an appropriate outer plane or who you contacted or whether if you contact an outer plane you are randomly likely to be answered by Heaven or Hell. Who did answer the call, and did it matter? If I'm asking about Hell, why doesn't that matter? Moreover, it doesn't tell you whether or not, if you are being lied to whether you can use Sense Motive to know, and if a player tried what would be the opposing bluff check? Plus, compared to Commune it's just a lousy spell. I can't think of any time I've seen this spell used, and I know I've never seen it relied on by anyone. It also in my opinion needs some caveats. For example, asking questions about how to destroy the City of Brass might well be appropriate questions to ask a power of the elemental plane of fire, but it would seem to me that even a random power of that plane might take particular umbrage to that line of questioning if they could figure out your intent. Likewise, there is no provision for the PC having direct and personal knowledge or relationship with the powers in question, which in game is not something entirely outside the realm of possibility and certainly by the time a PC could and would use these spells. So there is a ton of fiat situations that a DM will have to handle that aren't called out by the spell. So, yes, I am concerned with how complicated the spell is. If I wasn't, I wouldn't even put this out here. But I also want the final version of the spell to not only be at least somewhat useful, but to serve a world building purpose. Think of all the things you learn about my world from this spell: 1) Spirits are common, found almost everywhere, and have a great variety of scope and power. 2) There are these things called totems, and people set up shrines and leave totems scattered around the world, for the purpose of contacting these spirits. 3) There are almost certainly commercial enterprises specialized in providing the sort of incenses suitable for contacting spirits of particular sorts, so that you could go into any fair sized town and buy prepared incense of various sorts suitable for various purposes. 4) All of this together implies something akin to a religious structure - ritual, incense, and shrines and friendly or unfriendly spirits means that there is an animistic religion operating in place of or alongside a more formal polytheistic religion. Or in other words, it world filled with 'small gods'. 4) There are these secrets called truenames that let you call out a specific spirit, and possession of such a secret has value and probably economic worth. So finding a totem or a truename could be considered a sort of treasure. Now, if you could suggest some reasonable simplifications that still captures the flavor, I'd be all for it. [/QUOTE]
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