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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Thing I thought 4e did better: Monsters
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6980323" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Um, I think you're making a mistake on how you're interpreting CR, because the monsters you listed when the PCs expected to face them in 4e is almost the same as in 5e. A CR 1/2 monster is not meant for a level 1 PC. It's meant for TWO level 1 PCs. In 5e, you aren't meant to fight orcs and hobgoblins until level 3 or 4 either, so it's the same. Humanoids are almost never alone, so a squad of CR 1/2 orcs is, even by the book, an appropriate encounter for 4ea level 3-4 PCs. Putting level 1 PCs against orcs won't typically end well for the PCs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is a feature, not a bug of 5e. Why? Because it's incredibly easy to make these variants. There are tons of resources out there to do this, like<a href="http://www.dmsguild.com/product/189178/Monstrous-Leaders" target="_blank"> this one</a>. Obviously this is a personal preference issue so you're not wrong, but the reason why I think this is a feature not a bug is because I'd rather have the tools to make 100 variants I want, rather than 10 variants done for me and not the tools to make more. Also, we <em>are </em>seeing more variants, like those in Volo's Guide.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is objectively not true. What determines what cool things a monster can or can't do is up to the DM. They are not just bags of HP. Each monster has valued for INT and WIS and a description of their ecology. For example, a monster with a halfway decent intelligence will do lots of things not in it's statblock (strategy, tools, traps, items, etc). If you said, "monster stat blocks don't have extra powers" then I'd agree with you, but the game isn't played by comparing stat blocks. It's played in a game world with an environment, so those monsters can in fact do cool stuff limited only by your imagination. This is an incredibly important distinction, because how the game is actually played is critically important because it gives the context. Just comparing stat blocks? Yeah, you're right. But no one I know plays the game where there is only stat blocks and no environment or in game world context. I fully get how people would like more unique powers for monsters, but saying they are nothing but bags of HP and can't do cool stuff is objectively not true.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 6980323, member: 15700"] Um, I think you're making a mistake on how you're interpreting CR, because the monsters you listed when the PCs expected to face them in 4e is almost the same as in 5e. A CR 1/2 monster is not meant for a level 1 PC. It's meant for TWO level 1 PCs. In 5e, you aren't meant to fight orcs and hobgoblins until level 3 or 4 either, so it's the same. Humanoids are almost never alone, so a squad of CR 1/2 orcs is, even by the book, an appropriate encounter for 4ea level 3-4 PCs. Putting level 1 PCs against orcs won't typically end well for the PCs. I think this is a feature, not a bug of 5e. Why? Because it's incredibly easy to make these variants. There are tons of resources out there to do this, like[URL="http://www.dmsguild.com/product/189178/Monstrous-Leaders"] this one[/URL]. Obviously this is a personal preference issue so you're not wrong, but the reason why I think this is a feature not a bug is because I'd rather have the tools to make 100 variants I want, rather than 10 variants done for me and not the tools to make more. Also, we [I]are [/I]seeing more variants, like those in Volo's Guide. This is objectively not true. What determines what cool things a monster can or can't do is up to the DM. They are not just bags of HP. Each monster has valued for INT and WIS and a description of their ecology. For example, a monster with a halfway decent intelligence will do lots of things not in it's statblock (strategy, tools, traps, items, etc). If you said, "monster stat blocks don't have extra powers" then I'd agree with you, but the game isn't played by comparing stat blocks. It's played in a game world with an environment, so those monsters can in fact do cool stuff limited only by your imagination. This is an incredibly important distinction, because how the game is actually played is critically important because it gives the context. Just comparing stat blocks? Yeah, you're right. But no one I know plays the game where there is only stat blocks and no environment or in game world context. I fully get how people would like more unique powers for monsters, but saying they are nothing but bags of HP and can't do cool stuff is objectively not true. [/QUOTE]
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