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Thing I thought 4e did better: Monsters
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7007182" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>Again... where in 4e is this stated? This is one of those things I've seen you claim but I don't remember actually reading this in the 4e rulebooks. If it's truly a principle of 4e, and with 4e being regarded as one of the most transparent of all editions... it shouldn't be hard to point out where this is actually stated in the rules. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is this a skill challenge? There's a 1st level 4e ritual called purify water... wouldn't that be the resolution procedure for the PC's? Why do you claim it's a skill challenge? Of course now we need to answer how much water a black dragon can corrupt since the ritual can purify a specific volume of water determined by the skill check... is determining this also world building or is this DM fiat since it is now interacting with mechanics?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But the DM determining how much water a black dragon can corrupt isn't just fiction... it has mechanical ramifications. Too much and purify water becomes useless as a mechanism to counter it. How does the DM determine the mechanics of it if it's not DM fiat?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again see above, the mechanics of how much water a black dragon can corrupt affect the mechanics for how to purify it. You seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to SC's but there are other resolution systems 4e uses.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not black and white. Rule zero has existed in every edition... so no, creating through fiat is not a characteristic only 4e possess and at the same time all editions having rule zero in no way makes them all the exact same. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again I'll ask where is this stated in the rulebooks. </p><p></p><p>On another note... you're claiming the only resolution system for opposing the magical deeds of monsters in 4e is the SC? That seems... wrong, right away I can point to rituals as a way to resolve them... possibly class abilities, utility powers, magic items... or even a singular skill roll. This seems to be your interpretation of 4e that you are presenting as the official way to do things and honestly the approach seems wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the bigger problem is that 4e gives multiple resolutions systems to deal with things like the water corrupton (Can purify water or multiple purify water rituals negate the corruption) or the raising of dead (there's a ritual to become a lich... how many undead can I create once I complete it) on the players side but like [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] stated the mechanics to make those resolution systems meaningful or to give them grounding to help make them part of meaningful decisions on the players part is lacking for the monsters and left fully in the hands of DM fiat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7007182, member: 48965"] Again... where in 4e is this stated? This is one of those things I've seen you claim but I don't remember actually reading this in the 4e rulebooks. If it's truly a principle of 4e, and with 4e being regarded as one of the most transparent of all editions... it shouldn't be hard to point out where this is actually stated in the rules. Why is this a skill challenge? There's a 1st level 4e ritual called purify water... wouldn't that be the resolution procedure for the PC's? Why do you claim it's a skill challenge? Of course now we need to answer how much water a black dragon can corrupt since the ritual can purify a specific volume of water determined by the skill check... is determining this also world building or is this DM fiat since it is now interacting with mechanics? But the DM determining how much water a black dragon can corrupt isn't just fiction... it has mechanical ramifications. Too much and purify water becomes useless as a mechanism to counter it. How does the DM determine the mechanics of it if it's not DM fiat? Again see above, the mechanics of how much water a black dragon can corrupt affect the mechanics for how to purify it. You seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to SC's but there are other resolution systems 4e uses. It's not black and white. Rule zero has existed in every edition... so no, creating through fiat is not a characteristic only 4e possess and at the same time all editions having rule zero in no way makes them all the exact same. Again I'll ask where is this stated in the rulebooks. On another note... you're claiming the only resolution system for opposing the magical deeds of monsters in 4e is the SC? That seems... wrong, right away I can point to rituals as a way to resolve them... possibly class abilities, utility powers, magic items... or even a singular skill roll. This seems to be your interpretation of 4e that you are presenting as the official way to do things and honestly the approach seems wrong. I think the bigger problem is that 4e gives multiple resolutions systems to deal with things like the water corrupton (Can purify water or multiple purify water rituals negate the corruption) or the raising of dead (there's a ritual to become a lich... how many undead can I create once I complete it) on the players side but like [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] stated the mechanics to make those resolution systems meaningful or to give them grounding to help make them part of meaningful decisions on the players part is lacking for the monsters and left fully in the hands of DM fiat. [/QUOTE]
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