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Thing I thought 4e did better: Monsters
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7007535" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I think you know I have...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Torment... ability? Tormenting someone is to inflict severe physical or mental suffering. That's pretty much covered in their stat block. </p><p></p><p>On capturing a soul... </p><p> </p><p>from Open Grave...</p><p><em>Devils and other foul creatures also crave the souls of</em></p><p><em>mortals. Such creatures sometimes hunt the Shadowfell,</em></p><p><em>looking to gather bodiless souls, but rarely with any success.</em></p><p><em>Only exceptional effort allows a living creature to affect a</em></p><p><em>bodiless soul in any fashion whatsoever, and <strong>even great</strong></em></p><p><em><strong>devils lack this ability</strong>. Thus, these creatures have learned</em></p><p><em>to arrange for taking mortal souls into custody while those</em></p><p><em>souls yet inhabit living bodies. An individual who makes a</em></p><p><em>deal with a devil usually comes to this sort of end.</em></p><p></p><p>They state right there Devils have no ability to affect bodiless souls... Devils have no such ability...so it looks like in order to capture a soul they have to make a deal for it thus why it is missing from the stat block. </p><p></p><p>Souls are used to Construct and in Invocations by being consumed... How a Devil constructs something... well he would use the smae skills a PC would. Invocations on the other hand is murky because there is no invocation keyword for 4e... so I'm assuming they are using the one of the natural definitions for invocation, I would think given how much souls are valued it would be the act of invoking someone or something for aid... which is simply bartering. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It says statistics... not combat focused statistics... in fact looking at the passage it makes no type of distinction whatsoever, and this is in a section titled "Combat Fundamentals".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again you are assuming that SC's are <strong>THE</strong> way to resolve this... I disagree. It could be opposed rolls of skills (utilizing a skill power)...rituals...a class power or ability... etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This was my point... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Disagree... the ritual takes time, are the dragon's minions just standing around for 10 minutes while you complete it. The size of the pool could demand simultaneous castings by multiple PC's... with a single failure requiring ti to be cast again... and so on. So no the only thing at stake is not necessarily components consumed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why wouldn't the extent of his powers matter? Especially in and adventure where greater time spent stopping the dragon gives the dragon greater time to more fully corrupt the water? Or are you saying time wouldn't matter in your game? the water will always be the same no matter if they took a half day or 3 months to reach the dragon? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They aren't hidden... just like with the Devil the default black dragon doesn't have them. You can DM fiat that ability onto his stat block but again, that's like every edition before and after 4e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But wouldn't his rate determine how hard it is tio decontaminate or even if it's necessary... a drop of oil in a lake isn't going to contaminate the entire lake...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All of this is unnecessary posting. You hit the nail on the head the DM in conjunction with the PC's actions decide if something works or not. You keep pushing a SC as if it would be the only way to resolve the issue and it clearly, by a reading of the 4e books is not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The only thing you've shown me is that you assume that... nothing you've presented in 4e supports this assertion so far </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep... you rule zeroed it, like anyone in any edition could do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7007535, member: 48965"] I think you know I have... Torment... ability? Tormenting someone is to inflict severe physical or mental suffering. That's pretty much covered in their stat block. On capturing a soul... from Open Grave... [I]Devils and other foul creatures also crave the souls of mortals. Such creatures sometimes hunt the Shadowfell, looking to gather bodiless souls, but rarely with any success. Only exceptional effort allows a living creature to affect a bodiless soul in any fashion whatsoever, and [B]even great devils lack this ability[/B]. Thus, these creatures have learned to arrange for taking mortal souls into custody while those souls yet inhabit living bodies. An individual who makes a deal with a devil usually comes to this sort of end.[/I] They state right there Devils have no ability to affect bodiless souls... Devils have no such ability...so it looks like in order to capture a soul they have to make a deal for it thus why it is missing from the stat block. Souls are used to Construct and in Invocations by being consumed... How a Devil constructs something... well he would use the smae skills a PC would. Invocations on the other hand is murky because there is no invocation keyword for 4e... so I'm assuming they are using the one of the natural definitions for invocation, I would think given how much souls are valued it would be the act of invoking someone or something for aid... which is simply bartering. It says statistics... not combat focused statistics... in fact looking at the passage it makes no type of distinction whatsoever, and this is in a section titled "Combat Fundamentals". Again you are assuming that SC's are [B]THE[/B] way to resolve this... I disagree. It could be opposed rolls of skills (utilizing a skill power)...rituals...a class power or ability... etc. This was my point... Disagree... the ritual takes time, are the dragon's minions just standing around for 10 minutes while you complete it. The size of the pool could demand simultaneous castings by multiple PC's... with a single failure requiring ti to be cast again... and so on. So no the only thing at stake is not necessarily components consumed. Why wouldn't the extent of his powers matter? Especially in and adventure where greater time spent stopping the dragon gives the dragon greater time to more fully corrupt the water? Or are you saying time wouldn't matter in your game? the water will always be the same no matter if they took a half day or 3 months to reach the dragon? They aren't hidden... just like with the Devil the default black dragon doesn't have them. You can DM fiat that ability onto his stat block but again, that's like every edition before and after 4e. But wouldn't his rate determine how hard it is tio decontaminate or even if it's necessary... a drop of oil in a lake isn't going to contaminate the entire lake... All of this is unnecessary posting. You hit the nail on the head the DM in conjunction with the PC's actions decide if something works or not. You keep pushing a SC as if it would be the only way to resolve the issue and it clearly, by a reading of the 4e books is not. The only thing you've shown me is that you assume that... nothing you've presented in 4e supports this assertion so far Yep... you rule zeroed it, like anyone in any edition could do. [/QUOTE]
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